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Old 07-07-2012, 05:46 PM   #1
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


Howdy all,

My panel is rated to allow grounds to be doubled up. Do I want to twist 'em or just neatly line them up under the screw, or does it matter?

It seems to me that so long as both wires are in that hole and that screw is tight, it wouldn't much matter, but ... "it seems to me" has gotten me into trouble in the past.

I need to free up some spaces! Why someone would make a 40 circuit panel with only 20 connectors each for neutral and ground is beyond me. Even 25 would have been more reasonable.

Thanks,
Jim

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Old 07-07-2012, 05:50 PM   #2
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


Add a ground bar kit. Move as many bare ground wires to it to free up neutral slots. ONE wire per slot for neutral connections.

I would not twist them. If you ever have to relocate one, it will be a big thing to undo all that twisting ... (just sayin') ...

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Old 07-07-2012, 06:38 PM   #3
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


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Why someone would make a 40 circuit panel with only 20 connectors each for neutral and ground is beyond me.
Because the neutral and ground can be under the same screw.
But I'll also suggest that you get an additional ground bar to keep it neater...
just don't separate it from the others.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:46 PM   #4
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


The bars aren't specifically 1 for grounds and 1 for neutrals. Main panels grounds and neutrals go to the same bars and likely that the two bars are bonded to each other. So, you have 40 spaces for grounds and neutrals not 20 spaces for grounds and 20 spaces for neutrals. Also, keep in mind that all circuits don't have grounding conductors, in fact, many use the metal raceway (EMT) as the ground path.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:53 PM   #5
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


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Because the neutral and ground can be under the same screw...
No they can't! See section 408.41
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:14 PM   #6
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


Thanks all, for clarifying.

Jim
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:50 PM   #7
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


To clarify something . . .

I picked up a ground bar kit - bar and two mounting screws. It's branded for my panel so I anticipate no problems screwing it into the existing holes.

The question is, "do I need to do anything Other Than attach it to the panel?" As I understand it, mounting it directly to the panel provides this bar's connection to ground and no grounding wire needs to be run from the existing bar to this one, correct?

Just making sure...

Thanks again,
Jim
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:01 AM   #8
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


Right. The code changed... The conduit always used to accepted as the "equipment" ground, but no more - (sniffle...)
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:08 AM   #9
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


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Right. The code changed... The conduit always used to accepted as the "equipment" ground, but no more - (sniffle...)
Oh really? The NEC still recognizes metallic conduit as a grounding means.
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:57 AM   #10
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


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Originally Posted by kontoose View Post
Right. The code changed... The conduit always used to accepted as the "equipment" ground, but no more - (sniffle...)
Does anyone actually still own a codebook, or is everything just hearsay these days?
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:18 AM   #11
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


Sorry...In California, the conduit is no longer allowed to be used as equipment ground - but California is always ahead of the game - just like in football, I guess...
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:25 AM   #12
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


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Sorry...In California, the conduit is no longer allowed to be used as equipment ground - but California is always ahead of the game - just like in football, I guess...
It would be helpful if you added where these code changes apply. Not everyone here lives or follows the California electrical code. I don't know why you would even put something out there from the CEC unless the OP was from California.
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Old 07-11-2012, 09:57 AM   #13
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


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Originally Posted by kontoose View Post
Sorry...In California, the conduit is no longer allowed to be used as equipment ground - but California is always ahead of the game - just like in football, I guess...
I would like to see the exact code rule on this.
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Old 07-11-2012, 10:07 AM   #14
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


I decided to look it up myself...

From the 2010 CEC based on the NEC 08

feel free to look it up yourself ( http://ia700503.us.archive.org/20/it...title24_03.pdf ) page 232

Quote:
358~60 Grounding. EMT shall be permitted as an
equipment grounding conductor
If this isn't the correct cycle for the CEC or there has been an added amendment, please point out a specific citation, because right now, all I see is a bunch of nonsense from you without anything to back it up.
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Last edited by k_buz; 07-11-2012 at 10:09 AM.
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Old 07-11-2012, 11:12 AM   #15
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Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?


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Does anyone actually still own a codebook, or is everything just hearsay these days?
Why spend money on a code book, when sooner or later someone will give you the answer you are looking for, right or wrong!

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