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-   -   Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/doubling-grounds-panel-twisting-not-149505/)

simanco 07-07-2012 05:46 PM

Doubling grounds in panel - twisting or not?
 
Howdy all,

My panel is rated to allow grounds to be doubled up. Do I want to twist 'em or just neatly line them up under the screw, or does it matter?

It seems to me that so long as both wires are in that hole and that screw is tight, it wouldn't much matter, but ... "it seems to me" has gotten me into trouble in the past.

I need to free up some spaces! Why someone would make a 40 circuit panel with only 20 connectors each for neutral and ground is beyond me. Even 25 would have been more reasonable.

Thanks,
Jim

kbsparky 07-07-2012 05:50 PM

Add a ground bar kit. Move as many bare ground wires to it to free up neutral slots. ONE wire per slot for neutral connections.

I would not twist them. If you ever have to relocate one, it will be a big thing to undo all that twisting ... (just sayin') ...

TarheelTerp 07-07-2012 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simanco (Post 960219)
Why someone would make a 40 circuit panel with only 20 connectors each for neutral and ground is beyond me.

Because the neutral and ground can be under the same screw.
But I'll also suggest that you get an additional ground bar to keep it neater...
just don't separate it from the others.

k_buz 07-07-2012 06:46 PM

The bars aren't specifically 1 for grounds and 1 for neutrals. Main panels grounds and neutrals go to the same bars and likely that the two bars are bonded to each other. So, you have 40 spaces for grounds and neutrals not 20 spaces for grounds and 20 spaces for neutrals. Also, keep in mind that all circuits don't have grounding conductors, in fact, many use the metal raceway (EMT) as the ground path.

kbsparky 07-07-2012 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarheelTerp (Post 960246)
Because the neutral and ground can be under the same screw...

No they can't! See section 408.41

simanco 07-07-2012 07:14 PM

Thanks all, for clarifying.

Jim

simanco 07-09-2012 11:50 PM

To clarify something . . .

I picked up a ground bar kit - bar and two mounting screws. It's branded for my panel so I anticipate no problems screwing it into the existing holes.

The question is, "do I need to do anything Other Than attach it to the panel?" As I understand it, mounting it directly to the panel provides this bar's connection to ground and no grounding wire needs to be run from the existing bar to this one, correct?

Just making sure...

Thanks again,
Jim

kontoose 07-10-2012 02:01 AM

Right. The code changed... The conduit always used to accepted as the "equipment" ground, but no more - (sniffle...):(

Jim Port 07-10-2012 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kontoose (Post 962083)
Right. The code changed... The conduit always used to accepted as the "equipment" ground, but no more - (sniffle...):(

Oh really? The NEC still recognizes metallic conduit as a grounding means.

stickboy1375 07-10-2012 05:57 AM

12 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kontoose (Post 962083)
Right. The code changed... The conduit always used to accepted as the "equipment" ground, but no more - (sniffle...):(

Does anyone actually still own a codebook, or is everything just hearsay these days?

kontoose 07-11-2012 12:18 AM

Sorry...In California, the conduit is no longer allowed to be used as equipment ground - but California is always ahead of the game - just like in football, I guess...:)

Jim Port 07-11-2012 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kontoose (Post 962927)
Sorry...In California, the conduit is no longer allowed to be used as equipment ground - but California is always ahead of the game - just like in football, I guess...:)

It would be helpful if you added where these code changes apply. Not everyone here lives or follows the California electrical code. I don't know why you would even put something out there from the CEC unless the OP was from California.

k_buz 07-11-2012 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kontoose (Post 962927)
Sorry...In California, the conduit is no longer allowed to be used as equipment ground - but California is always ahead of the game - just like in football, I guess...:)

I would like to see the exact code rule on this.

k_buz 07-11-2012 10:07 AM

I decided to look it up myself...

From the 2010 CEC based on the NEC 08

feel free to look it up yourself ( http://ia700503.us.archive.org/20/it...title24_03.pdf ) page 232

Quote:

358~60 Grounding. EMT shall be permitted as an
equipment grounding conductor
If this isn't the correct cycle for the CEC or there has been an added amendment, please point out a specific citation, because right now, all I see is a bunch of nonsense from you without anything to back it up.

jbfan 07-11-2012 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickboy1375 (Post 962109)
Does anyone actually still own a codebook, or is everything just hearsay these days?

Why spend money on a code book, when sooner or later someone will give you the answer you are looking for, right or wrong!


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