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Old 01-26-2009, 02:15 PM   #1
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double and triple up on buses?


my panel's white bus and ground bus seems to not have any empty slots for added wire. is it ok to doule up or triple up on white and ground buses? i still have 5 slots to add breakers. i notice the previous owner also has ground on a white bus.

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Old 01-26-2009, 02:36 PM   #2
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double and triple up on buses?


Take the grounds off the neutral bar and put them with the grounds. You can double up on grounds (same size) and free up some space on the neutral bar.

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Old 01-26-2009, 02:50 PM   #3
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double and triple up on buses?


No doubling on the neutrals, don't do that.

Grounds, assuming they are the same size, are ok.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:11 PM   #4
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double and triple up on buses?


Just out of curiosity and cause I'm trying to learn, why can't you double up the neutrals? Since they are basically touching each other since they are connected to the same bar? Also about the grounds, why can you only double up if they are the same size? Not questioning anybody but just trying to learn! Thanks
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:22 PM   #5
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double and triple up on buses?


never hurts to ask questions ponch, it's the people that DON'T ask questions we gotta worry about!

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Old 01-26-2009, 03:26 PM   #6
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double and triple up on buses?


I too have wondered about the issue w/neutrals and grounds on the same bus (in the first panel -- sub-panels are a different story) since the two buses are bonded anyway. I would guess (but it's a guess) that the size issue has to do with making sure that the smaller wire doesn't fall out when the screw gets stopped by the larger wire.
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Old 01-26-2009, 03:34 PM   #7
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double and triple up on buses?


i think they mean a 14 on a 14 ground or a 12 on a 12 ground size, etc.

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Old 01-26-2009, 04:25 PM   #8
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double and triple up on buses?


I believe the requirement to keep neutrals on their own terminal is for safety, especially during troubleshooting. (There is an exception to the rule, if there are grounded conductors or circuits with paralles conductors, and the terminal is identified for use with 2 conductors...)

Suppose you are working on circuit # 1, whose neutral is terminated in the same hole as circuit# 2, under one screw. You turned off the breaker for # 1, but not for # 2 because you're not disturbing that circuit. However, when you loosen the screw to isolate or remove the # 1 neutral, you now have a loose connection on the # 2 circuit while you are messing around. Not good, depending on how many amps are going thru that circuit.
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Old 01-26-2009, 04:36 PM   #9
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double and triple up on buses?


Good point on the multi-circuit issue. Anytime I'm messing around _in_ my box the main is off (yes, I know there's still live parts in there) so the multi-circuit issue is less of a concern. Not to dismiss the issue, but it sounds like it's an issue during change, but not an issue during operations. That reminds me, I need to post a pic of my box later to see how messed up people think it is. :-)
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:17 PM   #10
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double and triple up on buses?


Quote:
Originally Posted by williswires View Post
Not good, depending on how many amps are going thru that circuit.
YES, one thing I've been told since day 1 is, you don't want to be a neutral.

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