Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120

carmusic · 12-09-2011, 01:47 PM

i would just buy a sub panel with a 30A single pole breaker like this http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053 and feed it with the 50A circuit
they may exist cheaper panels too

Stubbie · 12-09-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavesComputers

Awesome! great info!

can you provide a link to lowes/homedepot for the correct outdoor breaker panel i could use?

Also now that we talked about that heres the 2nd part.
I have a 240v welder. its 3wire but i have it running on a 4wire plug cause of the genny i was runing it off of is 4prong 240. genny is dead cause of carb problems and cant get the parts. so! i want to know if there is a way to put a selector switch, OR, just put 2 different recepticals for instance a 3prong 120 30amps (for RV) AND a 3prong 240 30amps (for welder).

I would use the same RV cable I use and just plug the welder into the RV side because it is a female 4prong receptical and just switch the cable from 1 plug to the other for what im using it for?

how would we wire that?

I'm out of time for now maybe some one else will help you with the second part until I get back later this evening. Personally your trying to improvise in order to save dollars.. which is fine.. but it will cause you to do unusual and unsafe practices with all these adapters your using for the welder and rv. Your wanting to try to re-purpose the rv power cord to also run the 240 welder which you have an adapter on its cord so you can plug it into the old and dead genny.

Maybe post some pictures of the adapters and cords?

I would drop all this resourceful thinking and run two separate receptacles to power the rv and the welder from the new panel using the appropriate extension cords for each.

You might look around on connecticut electric for rv power outlets that would work for the rv and your welder they have several choices

DavesComputers · 12-09-2011, 03:12 PM

Let me try and draw this out.

Here is my house

- Point 1 is where the 50amp wires come out of the house
- Point 2 is the approximate location of the RV (it moves all over the driveway)

the goal here is to put some kind of outdoor breaker panel to reduce the 50AMPS to 30AMPS.

---------- Lets try and make this simpler -------------
- 1. can we just use 240 and keep the orginal circut and just drop to a double pole 30amp breaker outside?
- that would continue the 240volt but only allow 30amp draw correct?

- 2. that way we could use the RV cable correctly for the welder OR the RV. (just unplug rv from RV side and plug into welder) when i want to use welder.

more pictures.

TO : with 30ft of cable

TO :

TO : this cable is about 10 ft

That is how the RV is currently wired.

i would just take off the double ground 4prong plug i currently use for the welder and on a CS6365 (see link) to match the female end of the 50amp cable
http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=9828

that should work correct?

assumeing all this is right, its time to find a breaker panel and a breaker for outside.

thanks for the continued replys!

DavesComputers · 12-09-2011, 03:34 PM

ugh just thought of something, i would be short a ground if i ran 240 through the 30amp cable.. can you do that? just 2 hots and neutral?

edit : or would it be 2 hots and a ground? and skip the neutral? im reading alot of different information

Stubbie · 12-10-2011, 12:34 AM

240 volts is 2 hots and equipment ground ...no neutral, however your rv plug is 4 wire 125/250. If you fore go the need for 240 volts and just run 30 amp 120 volts to the rv then you would have 1 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. All 120 volt circuits would be fine and you would select 30 amp 120 volt at the rv panel. The problem occurs trying to operate the welder which is 2 hots and 1 ground. You will need two separate receptacles. One receptacle powered by a single pole 120 volt 30 amp breaker for the rv and one receptacle powered by a double pole 30 amp breaker for the 240 volt welder. Your just going to have to put together a proper extension cord for the welder. There is no work around that is safe and feasible IMO.

DavesComputers · 12-10-2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubbie

240 volts is 2 hots and equipment ground ...no neutral, however your rv plug is 4 wire 125/250. If you fore go the need for 240 volts and just run 30 amp 120 volts to the rv then you would have 1 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. All 120 volt circuits would be fine and you would select 30 amp 120 volt at the rv panel. The problem occurs trying to operate the welder which is 2 hots and 1 ground. You will need two separate receptacles. One receptacle powered by a single pole 120 volt 30 amp breaker for the rv and one receptacle powered by a double pole 30 amp breaker for the 240 volt welder. Your just going to have to put together a proper extension cord for the welder. There is no work around that is safe and feasible IMO.

ok so like this?
50amp from house > outdoor breaker panel > two 30amp breakers [1 single pole(120)] to a 3prong 30amp receptical

[1 double pole(240)] to a seperate 3prong 30amp receptical

how ever only use 1 breaker at a time and make sure to shut off 1 before fliping the other.

then i would beable to use the 30amp cable for the RV for both the welder and the RV by just switching which plug im currently using.

that would work correct?

DavesComputers · 12-10-2011, 01:13 AM

or could i just do 50amp > breqaker panel with double pole 30amp wired for 240 > Welder 3prong 30amp receptical, and piggy back off of that for only 1 of the 120v lines and then run neutral to the 2nd receptical for the RV? that way i wouldnt need more then 1 breaker, just still chosing 1 plug at a time.

Stubbie · 12-10-2011, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavesComputers

ok so like this?
50amp from house > outdoor breaker panel > two 30amp breakers [1 single pole(120)] to a 3prong 30amp receptical

[1 double pole(240)] to a seperate 3prong 30amp receptical

how ever only use 1 breaker at a time and make sure to shut off 1 before fliping the other.

then i would beable to use the 30amp cable for the RV for both the welder and the RV by just switching which plug im currently using.

that would work correct?

No , you do not turn off one breaker and turn on the other you power the panel using the existing hot tub circuit on a 4 wire 50 amp feeder H-H-N-G. Then install a single pole 30 and a double pole 30 in the outside panel. Run 2 branch circuits to two receptacles nearby. The 30 amp rv receptacle (in weather proof enclosure) for the rv cord and 30 amp receptacle for the welder. Turn both breakers on. You can switch them on and off if you want but that is not necessary, Just plug the welder in when you want to use it and plug the rv in and forget it.

Stubbie · 12-10-2011, 02:07 AM

Looks like this

DavesComputers · 12-10-2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubbie

Looks like this

awesome that should do just fine, just need to find the appropriate breaker box, and some 30amp recepticals, what guage wire should i be using for branching? 4?

DavesComputers · 12-10-2011, 11:29 AM

http://www.lowes.com/pd_105737-76863...etInfo=Outdoor

how about that for the outdoor breaker panel?

Stubbie · 12-10-2011, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavesComputers

http://www.lowes.com/pd_105737-76863-TPL412C_4294821907+4294867278_4294937087_?productI d=1001525&Ns=p_product_price|0&pl=1&currentURL=%2F pl_GE_4294821907%2B4294867278_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp _product_price%7C0&facetInfo=Outdoor

how about that for the outdoor breaker panel?

The one above is completely misidentified by lowes. It needs to be the TPL412R 8 circuit which would work but I'm not a fan of those plastic load centers. It also must be capable of having the ability to separate neutral from ground.

If you can find someone at the big box that is knowledgeable he/she should be able to set you up just be sure that you purchase a ground bar kit if necessary for the load center so you can separate neutral from ground.

This one is better

http://www.homedepot.com/buy/electri...ter-60049.html

Stubbie · 12-10-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavesComputers

awesome that should do just fine, just need to find the appropriate breaker box, and some 30amp recepticals, what guage wire should i be using for branching? 4?

The rv will be 10 awg copper thwn insulation you will run 3 wires hot(BLACK),neutral(white) and equipment ground (green). The receptacle must match your plug on the rv cord. The wire is the typical wire you see on the spools at the big box. Just have them cut how much of each color you need. Use pvc gray electrical conduit with appropriate fittings to the receptacle boxes.

I'm not sure on the welder at this point ...do you have the specifications for it? If it is 30 input amps then 10 awg copper. Or maybe you can post the electrical nameplate on it or model and maker.

DavesComputers · 12-10-2011, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stubbie

The rv will be 10 awg copper thwn insulation you will run 3 wires hot(BLACK),neutral(white) and equipment ground (green). The receptacle must match your plug on the rv cord. The wire is the typical wire you see on the spools at the big box. Just have them cut how much of each color you need. Use pvc gray electrical conduit with appropriate fittings to the receptacle boxes.

I'm not sure on the welder at this point ...do you have the specifications for it? If it is 30 input amps then 10 awg copper. Or maybe you can post the electrical nameplate on it or model and maker.

the orginal welder cable on it isnt much more probably 14, its actually quite small, so i doubt it pulls more then 20 amps

EDIT : Input: 240 volts, 24.5 amps, single phase, 60 Hz are the specifications of a similar welder

DavesComputers · 12-10-2011, 10:35 PM

bought everything i needed at homedepot ill take pictures and hook everything up tomorrow. i forgot a 30amp male plug so ill need to go back for it to use on the welder but thats for another time.

+rep to stubbie

12-09-2011, 01:47 PM	#16
carmusic Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 106	Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120 i would just buy a sub panel with a 30A single pole breaker like this http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053 and feed it with the 50A circuit they may exist cheaper panels too

12-09-2011, 03:12 PM	#18
DavesComputers Newbie Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 16	Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120 Let me try and draw this out. Here is my house - Point 1 is where the 50amp wires come out of the house - Point 2 is the approximate location of the RV (it moves all over the driveway) the goal here is to put some kind of outdoor breaker panel to reduce the 50AMPS to 30AMPS. ---------- Lets try and make this simpler ------------- - 1. can we just use 240 and keep the orginal circut and just drop to a double pole 30amp breaker outside? - that would continue the 240volt but only allow 30amp draw correct? - 2. that way we could use the RV cable correctly for the welder OR the RV. (just unplug rv from RV side and plug into welder) when i want to use welder. more pictures. TO : with 30ft of cable TO : TO : this cable is about 10 ft That is how the RV is currently wired. i would just take off the double ground 4prong plug i currently use for the welder and on a CS6365 (see link) to match the female end of the 50amp cable http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=9828 that should work correct? assumeing all this is right, its time to find a breaker panel and a breaker for outside. thanks for the continued replys! Last edited by DavesComputers; 12-09-2011 at 03:29 PM. Reason: mistype

12-09-2011, 03:34 PM	#19
DavesComputers Newbie Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 16	Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120 ugh just thought of something, i would be short a ground if i ran 240 through the 30amp cable.. can you do that? just 2 hots and neutral? edit : or would it be 2 hots and a ground? and skip the neutral? im reading alot of different information Last edited by DavesComputers; 12-09-2011 at 06:18 PM. Reason: adding

12-10-2011, 12:34 AM	#20
Stubbie UAW SKILLED TRADES Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 4,584	Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120 240 volts is 2 hots and equipment ground ...no neutral, however your rv plug is 4 wire 125/250. If you fore go the need for 240 volts and just run 30 amp 120 volts to the rv then you would have 1 hot, 1 neutral, and 1 ground. All 120 volt circuits would be fine and you would select 30 amp 120 volt at the rv panel. The problem occurs trying to operate the welder which is 2 hots and 1 ground. You will need two separate receptacles. One receptacle powered by a single pole 120 volt 30 amp breaker for the rv and one receptacle powered by a double pole 30 amp breaker for the 240 volt welder. Your just going to have to put together a proper extension cord for the welder. There is no work around that is safe and feasible IMO. __________________ " One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices" Stubbie

12-10-2011, 01:13 AM	#22
DavesComputers Newbie Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Virginia Posts: 16	Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120 or could i just do 50amp > breqaker panel with double pole 30amp wired for 240 > Welder 3prong 30amp receptical, and piggy back off of that for only 1 of the 120v lines and then run neutral to the 2nd receptical for the RV? that way i wouldnt need more then 1 breaker, just still chosing 1 plug at a time.

Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120