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Old 12-08-2011, 10:38 PM   #1
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


I have a double pole 50amp breaker that is wired up for our hottub outside at 240, (2 hots 1 neutral). From what i saw when i trashed the hottub, the heater is the only thing running 240, all other pumps and lights ran 120, so i figure i can just run 1 hot and the only neutral and get 120v with 50amps..? and wire cap the other hot?

Im trying to setup a TT–30 (RV30) female on it so i can run my 30amp cable to the plug and power the RV. We have a trailer and the RV and the trailer has its own dedicated 30amp so the RV is stuck on a 15amp standard house plug and its just not enough to run the heaters durning the winter.

The RV is designed for 50/30/20/15/5 amp incomming from the same connection. Can i put the 30amp 3 prong tt-30 cable on the 50amps or will it burn? i wont actually be drawing any where near 50 amps probably under 30.

sorry if my typing is jumbled its late ha.

suggestions?

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Old 12-08-2011, 11:33 PM   #2
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


What is the wire from the RV plug listed for and/or what is the wire size of the RV plug?

If the wire is rated for 30A and you connect it to a 50A breaker... you could have 40-49A running through it and the wire would burn....

Why not just purchase a 30A single pole breaker?

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Old 12-09-2011, 12:47 AM   #3
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


Quote:
Originally Posted by DavesComputers View Post
I have a double pole 50amp breaker that is wired up for our hottub outside at 240, (2 hots 1 neutral). From what i saw when i trashed the hottub, the heater is the only thing running 240, all other pumps and lights ran 120, so i figure i can just run 1 hot and the only neutral and get 120v with 50amps..? and wire cap the other hot?

Im trying to setup a TT–30 (RV30) female on it so i can run my 30amp cable to the plug and power the RV. We have a trailer and the RV and the trailer has its own dedicated 30amp so the RV is stuck on a 15amp standard house plug and its just not enough to run the heaters durning the winter.

The RV is designed for 50/30/20/15/5 amp incomming from the same connection. Can i put the 30amp 3 prong tt-30 cable on the 50amps or will it burn? i wont actually be drawing any where near 50 amps probably under 30.

sorry if my typing is jumbled its late ha.

suggestions?
No equipment ground wire was ran with the hot tub branch circuit?

For single family dwellings you cannot place a 30 amp receptacle on a 50 amp branch circuit rating due it being an individual branch circuit to a simplex receptacle.

2011 NEC

(B) Receptacles.
(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit.
A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit
shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch
circuit.

And the circuit needs to be gfci
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Last edited by Stubbie; 12-09-2011 at 12:54 AM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:50 AM   #4
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


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No equipment ground wire was ran with the hot tub branch circuit?
i believe there is one ran to out to the outside terminal box (just a shutoff switch for the hottub) maybe just bolted to the box? ill check this after noon and let you know.

EDIT : with the 50amps coming out from the house could i add a new panel, and just put a 30amp breaker on it? would that be legal?

EDIT X2 : OH! could i just use a 50amp recepticle outside and make a 50amp to 30amp adaptor for my personal use? that way if we move its a actual 50amp receptical?

Last edited by DavesComputers; 12-09-2011 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:54 AM   #5
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


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What is the wire from the RV plug listed for and/or what is the wire size of the RV plug?

If the wire is rated for 30A and you connect it to a 50A breaker... you could have 40-49A running through it and the wire would burn....

Why not just purchase a 30A single pole breaker?
Right out of the RV i have a 50amp cable (4 pins on the rv) then it goes to a 50amp (4pin male) to 30amp (3 pin) reducer and that cable is like 20ft long.

the RV has a AMP panel where i can select the MAX amount of AMPS pulled from the house, 50/30/20/15/5 so if i set it to max at 30amps, then i should have no risk of burning the cable on a 50amp breaker right?
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Old 12-09-2011, 01:22 AM   #6
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


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Originally Posted by DavesComputers View Post
i believe there is one ran to out to the outside terminal box (just a shutoff switch for the hottub) maybe just bolted to the box? ill check this after noon and let you know.

EDIT : with the 50amps coming out from the house could i add a new panel, and just put a 30amp breaker on it? would that be legal?

EDIT X2 : OH! could i just use a 50amp recepticle outside and make a 50amp to 30amp adaptor for my personal use? that way if we move its a actual 50amp receptical?
Why not just keep the 50 amp double pole and install a Rv 50 amp receptacle and plug in the rv at 50 amps ... you said your panel can be set for 50 amps and your cord coming out of the rv is 50 amps?


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Old 12-09-2011, 01:44 AM   #7
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


You cannot hook up a wire or device rated for 30 amps to a 50 amp feed. Period.

You can hook that 50 amp cord from RV to a 50 amp outlet.

You cannot put that 30 amp 'reducer' (adapter) on the RV cord and hook it to that 50 amp breaker.

And what 'stubbie' said
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Old 12-09-2011, 05:01 AM   #8
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


Hi Dave, "50amp cable (4 pins on the rv)" sounds like 50a 240 v. Check your owners manual or rv plate to make sure. So use a double pole 50a ground fault breaker in the main panel. Just make sure every cable, wire, receptacle and plug is rated for 50 amps 240 volts. Or if you do as in "EDIT...new panel" the 50A DP GFBI (double pole ground fault breaker interupt) can go in the new panel.
The breaker always has to be sized to the lowest link in the chain. So if any cable, wire, receptacle, plug or rv input is lower than 50/240 just get a smaller (or single pole for 120v) GFBI breaker. The smaller breaker can go in either the old or new panel without changing the 50a wire. If you use a new panel, (with a GFBI) at the end of the old 50a run, the old 50a breaker can stay too. Good luck

Last edited by Glennsparky; 12-09-2011 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 12-09-2011, 05:14 AM   #9
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


FYI, ground fault circuits don't play well together. Use only one ground fault circuit, but it can be at any point in the chain. It can be breaker or receptacle, not both. And not one GFBI feeding another GFBI.
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Old 12-09-2011, 06:43 AM   #10
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


This circuit does not require a gfci.
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Old 12-09-2011, 07:52 AM   #11
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


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Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
Why not just keep the 50 amp double pole and install a Rv 50 amp receptacle and plug in the rv at 50 amps ... you said your panel can be set for 50 amps and your cord coming out of the rv is 50 amps?


because i dont have enough 50amp cable and its horribly expensive, the 50amp cable is only about 10 ft i need 30 minimal
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Old 12-09-2011, 09:27 AM   #12
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


You always run into these issues when you try to re-purpose electrical circuits. Trying to use what you have is ok , ..to avoid expense .. but you need to do it correctly. So let me see if I understand what you have. You want to use the 50 amp RV cord and by adapter convert it to a 30 amp 120 volt rv power cord that will connect into the existing 50 amp hot tub branch circuit. This is so you can power the RV on 30 amps 120 volt instead of 50 amps 120/240 volt.

Is that correct ?
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Old 12-09-2011, 10:05 AM   #13
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


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Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
You always run into these issues when you try to re-purpose electrical circuits. Trying to use what you have is ok , ..to avoid expense .. but you need to do it correctly. So let me see if I understand what you have. You want to use the 50 amp RV cord and by adapter convert it to a 30 amp 120 volt rv power cord that will connect into the existing 50 amp hot tub branch circuit. This is so you can power the RV on 30 amps 120 volt instead of 50 amps 120/240 volt.

Is that correct ?
Yes, ill post some pictures



And here is where the 50amp goes outside:




yes you are correct, 50amp cord is very expensive, and we have several 30amp cords we got for the RV. right now the RV is powered by 50 to 30 to standard 15amp house plug.

problem is this house is wired funny, so some of the basement and the 1st floor and the garage have power drawing from that same 15amp breaker, and i cant even run a air compressor on it without it poping.

so this is important to help prevent the RV from freezing this winter we would like to run the heaters but the electric fireplace alone draws 11 amps on startup and the longer it runs the higher the amps so need some power.

this is jsut step 1 of what i would like to do with this 50AMP breaker.
ill discuss the other once we figure this one out.

Thanks again!
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:19 PM   #14
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


That looks like a air conditioning pull out type disconnect which was never compliant to electrical code for the hot tub. You also have gray wire for ground. If they are 6 awg or under they must be green insulated or bare by code. It looks like you have #10 equipment ground which is good for 60 amps if copper wire. To be code compliant that would need to be corrected. If you're wanting to power other things with the 50 amp circuit in the future the best option is a sub panel at the disconnect location.... Or you could extend the existing 50 amp to where your 50 amp rv cord will reach. To power more than just the rv at the old disconnect location install a 100 amp 3R (weather proof) panel that will accept a range of circuit breakers usually 4 to 6 full size single pole circuit breakers. Then install a 30 amp code compliant branch circuit to a weather proof receptacle enclosure close by to plug in your existing 30 amp power cord. Install a 30 A single pole breaker in the new panel. Then at a later date install another breaker or two to power other equipment.

All of this needs to be done correctly and if you go with a sub panel you need to let us know so we can provide the details of a safe installation. Don't mess around trying to be resourceful, make a safe installation complaint with electrical code so there are not any accidents from an unsafe installation.
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Old 12-09-2011, 12:30 PM   #15
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Double Pole 50amp Breaker for 240, lets make it 120


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That looks like a air conditioning pull out type disconnect which was never compliant to electrical code for the hot tub. You also have gray wire for ground. If they are 6 awg or under they must be green insulated or bare by code. It looks like you have #10 equipment ground which is good for 60 amps if copper wire. To be code compliant that would need to be corrected. If you're wanting to power other things with the 50 amp circuit in the future the best option is a sub panel at the disconnect location.... Or you could extend the existing 50 amp to where your 50 amp rv cord will reach. To power more than just the rv at the old disconnect location install a 60 amp 3R (weather proof) panel that will accept a range of circuit breakers usually 4 single pole circuit breakers. Then install a 30 amp weather proof receptacle enclosure close by to plug in your existing 30 amp power cord. Install a 30 A single pole breaker in the new panel. Then at a later date install another breaker or two to power other equipment.

All of this needs to be done correctly and if you go with a sub panel you need to let us know so we can provide the details of a safe installation. Don't mess around trying to be resourceful, make a safe installation complaint with electrical code so there are not any accidents from an unsafe installation.

Awesome! great info!

can you provide a link to lowes/homedepot for the correct outdoor breaker panel i could use?

Also now that we talked about that heres the 2nd part.
I have a 240v welder. its 3wire but i have it running on a 4wire plug cause of the genny i was runing it off of is 4prong 240. genny is dead cause of carb problems and cant get the parts. so! i want to know if there is a way to put a selector switch, OR, just put 2 different recepticals for instance a 3prong 120 30amps (for RV) AND a 3prong 240 30amps (for welder).

I would use the same RV cable I use and just plug the welder into the RV side because it is a female 4prong receptical and just switch the cable from 1 plug to the other for what im using it for?

how would we wire that?

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