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Old 10-31-2011, 06:12 PM   #1
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Hi Sparkies. I'm just trying to understand why the urgent need to ground a ceiling light when no table or floor lamps are grounded. Why the different rules? My metal ceiling box has no ground wire nor is the box grounded. Of course, I will connect the black and white wires so that the light socked base is not hot, just like the outlets, so the polarity is correct. The house was built in the nineteen-fifties. Yes, I know that I could crawl through my low ceiling attic and pull a ground wire, but I'd rather not, bad knees, feeling old, wait, I am old. I have knee pads, but still....
THANKS A MILLION!

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Old 10-31-2011, 06:26 PM   #2
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


The NEC does not cover table lamps.

Your 3 choices.

1. Run a ground.

2. GFCI protect the circuit/fixture.

3. Use a fixture that made of mostly plastic.

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Old 10-31-2011, 06:47 PM   #3
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Code05 View Post
The NEC does not cover table lamps.

Your 3 choices.

1. Run a ground.

2. GFCI protect the circuit/fixture.

3. Use a fixture that made of mostly plastic.
Yes, I've heard that NEC doesn't cover lamps. What I'd like to know is, what's the difference. If it's that Important, why aren't lamps grounded?
Since it's my house I don't care about technicalities. Thanks for responding,
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:47 PM   #4
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


isn't the 50s wire in BX that is a grounding point back to the panel or the box within the ceiling
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:10 PM   #5
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


In the big cities, perhaps. But many areas used that non-grounded romex. <blech>
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:19 PM   #6
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


HI kbsparky, so, are we more likely to be electrocuted by standing on a latter and touching a ceiling light or turning off a table or floor lamp? That's my question!
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:36 PM   #7
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


This the code for cord connected item in residences. Lamps are not on the list.

250.114 Equipment Connected by Cord and Plug. Under
any of the conditions described in 250.114(1) through (4),
exposed, normally non–current-carrying metal parts of
cord-and-plug-connected equipment shall be connected to
the equipment grounding conductor.

Exception: Listed tools, listed appliances, and listed equipment
covered in 250.114(2) through (4) shall not be required
to be connected to an equipment grounding conductor where
protected by a system of double insulation or its equivalent.
Double insulated equipment shall be distinctively marked.


(3) In residential occupancies:
a. Refrigerators, freezers, and air conditioners
b. Clothes-washing, clothes-drying, dish-washing machines;
ranges; kitchen waste disposers; information
technology equipment; sump pumps and electrical
aquarium equipment
c. Hand-held motor-operated tools, stationary and
fixed motor-operated tools, and light industrial
motor-operated tools
d. Motor-operated appliances of the following types:
hedge clippers, lawn mowers, snow blowers, and
wet scrubbers
e. Portable handlamps
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:53 PM   #8
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Install the fixture and forget about it.
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:56 PM   #9
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Quote:
Originally Posted by brric View Post
Install the fixture and forget about it.
The NEC does not allow common sense.
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:17 PM   #10
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Innocence is a blessing... don't you just wish you didn't know the NEC!!!??? ::P
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:21 PM   #11
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Amen! Thanks ALL, bluwolf nite,nite, now.
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:53 PM   #12
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Code05 View Post
The NEC does not allow common sense.
Show me where it says that installing a new fixture, or an old fixture for that matter, in a building that was compliant when constructed is a violation.
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Old 10-31-2011, 10:33 PM   #13
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Quote:
Originally Posted by hohadcr View Post
Innocence is a blessing... don't you just wish you didn't know the NEC!!!??? ::P
Heck, I would be happy enough if they would just write it in plain English, but that is not going to happen: It is a legal document.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:07 PM   #14
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Quote:
Originally Posted by brric View Post
Show me where it says that installing a new fixture, or an old fixture for that matter, in a building that was compliant when constructed is a violation.
For grounding we start here.

Quote:
410.40 General. Luminaires and lighting equipment shall
be grounded as required in Article 250 and Part V of this
article.

410.44 Methods of Grounding. Luminaires and equipment
shall be mechanically connected to an equipment grounding
conductor as specified in 250.118 and sized in accordance
with 250.122.
Exception No. 1: Luminaires made of insulating material
that is directly wired or attached to outlets supplied by a
wiring method that does not provide a ready means for
grounding attachment to an equipment grounding conductor
shall be made of insulating material and shall have no
exposed conductive parts.
Exception No. 2: Replacement luminaires shall be permitted
to connect an equipment grounding conductor from the
outlet in compliance with 250.130(C). The luminaire shall
then comply with 410.42.
Exception No. 3: Where no equipment grounding conductor
exists at the outlet, replacement luminaires that are
GFCI protected shall not be required to be connected to an
equipment grounding conductor.
For using an old fixture

Quote:
410.6 Listing Required. All luminaires and lampholders
shall be listed.

410.74 Luminaire Rating.
(A) Marking. All luminaires shall be marked with the
maximum lamp wattage or electrical rating, manufacturer’s
name, trademark, or other suitable means of identification.
A luminaire requiring supply wire rated higher than 60°C
(140°F) shall be marked with the minimum supply wire
temperature rating on the luminaire and shipping carton or
equivalent.
Since most new fixtures not only require an EGC, But 90C wire supply connections, the old NM-B or AC will not comply with 110.3(B), because it was 60C conductors.

Quote:
110.3(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

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Old 11-01-2011, 04:45 PM   #15
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Does my ceiling light HAVE to be grounded?


Hey Code 05, basically from what you quoted from NEC, 110.3 (B) if my wiring is "NM-B or AC" I would have to, by code, completely rewire my new light fixture, I did notice that it said something about 90C.
Also, I guess the answer to my main question, what is more likely to electrocute me, a table or floor lamp or standing on a latter or chair and touching my ceiling light, percentage wise that is, in other words, turning on lights daily, with circuit breaker on or, every three years, replacing the circular fluorescent light bulbs with the wall switch turned off , comes under the common sense rule that you mentioned. Just wondering, Bluwolf


Last edited by Bluwolf; 11-01-2011 at 05:20 PM.
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