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Old 05-13-2012, 12:39 PM   #1
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Hi,

I have two questions about a panel I recently had an electrician install in my house. We replaced my 100A fuse service with circuit breakers.

First, here's the panel:


My first question is regarding the two circuits that were not long enough to reach the panel. The electrician ran both of these circuits to one box and then ran a 14/3 wire from the box to the panel:


The two hot wires are on separate 15A breakers that are tied together with a bar I'm guessing because it's the same cable(bottom right):


My problem is that one of these circuits is my outside receptacle/lawn lite and the other one is my furnace. From an electrician standpoint while working on someone's house, would you not want to have the furnace completely separate? I want to do some work on my lawn lite and I can't shut the power off without shutting the power to my furnace off too (which means no A/C). This just doesn't seem like a logical thing to do on the electrician's part. Should I call them back and have them put up two junction boxes instead of one?


Secondly, I'm always confused about whether neutral and ground should be tied together in a main panel. They don't appear to be here but I could be wrong:



Thanks for any help


Last edited by pete0403; 05-13-2012 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 05-13-2012, 01:26 PM   #2
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Your electrian created a MWBC (Multi wire branch circuit). Perfectly acceptable method but poor choice of the 2 circuits. Easily fixed. Need to replace the 14/3 with 2 14/2 cables and replace the breaker with 2 single pole breakers. The existing junction box can be used for both circuits.

The main ground and neutral bars are tied together with the buss bar on the left. Not sure why he added the extra bar but it grounded to the panel case.

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Old 05-13-2012, 02:19 PM   #3
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It looks to me that the electrician did an excellent job and that you are creating an issue where none exists.
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:43 PM   #4
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If those breakers in the top row are on in the down position then he already failed to meet code. I doubt that panel is listed to be mounted sideways like that.
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:45 PM   #5
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brric, I know he did a good job and I told him that when I happily paid him. Did you read my post? My issue is with the two lines being run together. I can't disconnect my flickering lawn lite until I get a chance to look at the socket without also cutting the power to my furnace.

I understand your kinship to another obviously good electrician here but I'm not creating a problem here. There IS a problem.
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Old 05-13-2012, 02:54 PM   #6
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If those breakers in the top row are on in the down position then he already failed to meet code. I doubt that panel is listed to be mounted sideways like that.
That is standard in Canada.

All you have to do to turn off power to the light is turn off the switch for the light.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:08 PM   #7
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go buy 10 feet of 14-2, replace the 1 14-3 with 2 14-2's, replace the breaker with 2 single poles, have a beer. $20 worth of material
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:20 PM   #8
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Light is on a twilight sensor only. Back to first question...

Should I call him about this our would it be considered "nit picky"?
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:24 PM   #9
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Yes nit picky.

If the light is on a photocell, the light is off during the day. If you really want to make sure, flip the breaker for the short while you need to work on the light.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:40 PM   #10
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You could always turn off the breaker for a short time, and disconnect the wire from the breaker that feeds the outdoor circuit, and then turn the breaker back on so the furnace can continue to run. Then when you are done working on the outdoor circuit, turn the breaker off again, re-connect the wire and turn it back on.
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:11 PM   #11
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You could always turn off the breaker for a short time, and disconnect the wire from the breaker that feeds the outdoor circuit, and then turn the breaker back on so the furnace can continue to run. Then when you are done working on the outdoor circuit, turn the breaker off again, re-connect the wire and turn it back on.
Excellent suggestion.
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:32 PM   #12
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Or put a switch in the junction box so you can turn off the outside circuit. How often will you be working on that circuit to make special arrangements.

Can someone explain why the 2 additional ground bars were added (top and bottom of panel) instead of removing the tie bar between the 2 busses and using one for neutral and one for ground? It appears there are more than enough termination holes.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #13
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Simple fix, ask him to come put in two single pole breakers instead of the double pole.

I can't find the rule right now, but the breaker tie is only needed when the two hots share the same yoke(i.e stove plug, dryer plug, split plugs).
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:36 PM   #14
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The NEC would require a 2 pole breaker or a handle tie for a MWBC, not sure if the CEC includes this
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:24 PM   #15
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If those breakers in the top row are on in the down position then he already failed to meet code. I doubt that panel is listed to be mounted sideways like that.
Although I agree with you about the panel, apparently it doesn't matter in Canada.

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