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Old 09-11-2012, 09:15 PM   #31
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
Grounded, bonded, to the layman they are the same thing, but many electricians do not know the difference either.

I agree.

The green wires you buy that comes with the screw is called a bond jumper, at least in my neck of the woods.
That is because it is a bonding jumper.

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Old 09-11-2012, 09:16 PM   #32
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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"I have to agree with stickyboy. You are bonding the box to the grounding conductor in the panel."

I agree with this statement, except to say bonding the box to the equipment grounding conductor.



I don't agree with this statement. The grounded conductor would be the "neutral". The "Neutral" or "Grounded conductor" is "White" wire of a 240/120V system. It would be a "Neutral" when it is shared by two Ungrounded conductors.
The ground(ed) conductor is what clears the faults.... that's why we BOND to it...
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:26 PM   #33
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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The ground(ed) conductor is what clears the faults.... that's why we BOND to it...
Yes, yes, yes.. Do we actually agree on something?

I find no fault in this statement. But this would be at the source and the original discussion was for a random junction box in the field.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:31 PM   #34
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


The NEC has created a monster.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:32 PM   #35
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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Yes, yes, yes.. Do we actually agree on something?

I find no fault in this statement. But this would be at the source and the original discussion was for a random junction box in the field.
But, the fact that the grounded conductor is grounded has nothing to do with its ability and function to clear faults.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:33 PM   #36
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


Damn it.....all thats been accomplished here is that I just remembered that I forgot to bond my boxes to the ground in the last two outlets I put in......LOL
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:37 PM   #37
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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Yes, yes, yes.. Do we actually agree on something?

I find no fault in this statement. But this would be at the source and the original discussion was for a random junction box in the field.
I think we agree, i just take is a step further and realize the NEC has bastardized the word grounding...

And once they replace the word grounding with earthing, everyone will agree on what is being accomplished.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:45 PM   #38
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


what can happen if a metal receptacle is NOT grounded but the outlet or light that it is used for is?
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:50 PM   #39
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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I think we agree, i just take is a step further and realize the NEC has bastardized the word grounding...

And once they replace the word grounding with earthing, everyone will agree on what is being accomplished.
NEC has gotten better in this regard. You may be right with the replacement of the word grounding with earthing.

I gotta go for the night. I will try and reread my original statement and your comments and rethink what is actually being said. I believe in more ways than is evident, we agree on a lot of what is being discussed.

Your "earthing" comment made me go back and read the NEC definitions and I think I know why we disagree on some things.

And LOOOOOOOOl for this discussion in the DIY forum. Now no one will know what the heck to think
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:08 PM   #40
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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what can happen if a metal receptacle is NOT grounded but the outlet or light that it is used for is?
Receptacles receive things. Outlets provide things. Lights are installed at outlets. So are receptacles.

I think what you mean to ask is, what if an outlet box is not bonded, but the device attached to the outlet box is bonded.

Answer: .....it depends.

Is the device self bonding?
Is there a fault?
Who is on first?

Last edited by jlmran; 09-11-2012 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:44 PM   #41
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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Receptacles receive things. Outlets provide things. Lights are installed at outlets. So are receptacles.
by "receptacle" i mean just a metal box.
by "outlet" i mean a power outlet, usually a duplex, AKA socket, into which you put the plug from a device or an appliance.
a "light" would be anything that provides illumination and is mounted to a receptacle.
so a receptacle most commonly hosts either an outlet, a light, or is a junction box

sorry for any confusion
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:47 PM   #42
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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250.146 says that an equipment bonding jumper shall be used to connect the grounding terminal of a grounding type receptacle to a grounded box unless, it is a surface mounted box where you have direct metal to metal contact between the device yoke and the box.
what is a "device yoke"?
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:06 AM   #43
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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what is a "device yoke"?
The metal part on top and bottom of every device where the 6-32 screws go though.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:57 AM   #44
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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Yes and yes, it shall be a green screw

Screw does not have to be green.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:11 AM   #45
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does every metal box need to be grounded?


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The metal part on top and bottom of every device where the 6-32 screws go though.
So that meets the requirement? Standard outlets are fine then if I pull the little washer off the 6-32 screw?

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