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Old 02-21-2009, 02:39 PM   #31
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


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Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
I see lots of hard wired DW's around here, just nobody installs the required breaker lock... I doubt they know its required.
422.31(b)

Well we know it isn't going to be within sight most of the time.

What do they mean by being able to be locked open? Are they talking about a lock out system (to prevent it from being energized while being serviced) for the dishwasher breaker?

Jamie

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Old 02-21-2009, 02:55 PM   #32
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


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Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
422.31(b)

Well we know it isn't going to be within sight most of the time.

What do they mean by being able to be locked open? Are they talking about a lock out system (to prevent it from being energized while being serviced) for the dishwasher breaker?

Jamie

Yes, the NEC does not want anyone to accidently turn it on when someone is working on the equipment.
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:12 PM   #33
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


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Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
I see lots of hard wired DW's around here, just nobody installs the required breaker lock... I doubt they know its required.
I have never ever installed a breaker lock on one. Not for ignorance of its requirement, but for lack of the AHJ requiring it in my areas. And in some way, I could see a breaker lock being a big inconvenience if you ever needed to turn one off in a hurry.
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:58 PM   #34
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


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I have never ever installed a breaker lock on one. Not for ignorance of its requirement, but for lack of the AHJ requiring it in my areas.

Me niether, kind of why I like the receptacle method, still meet code.
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Old 02-21-2009, 08:27 PM   #35
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


Every residential dishwasher I've connected has been hard-wired, no switch, no cord-and-plug, and no breaker lock. I've yet to have any inspector question it.

It's possible that all of the local AHJs, or maybe even the state has ammended the code, or maybe it's just the way it's done around here.

I'd like to know just exactly how many people have ever been shocked while working on a dishwasher that had no disconnecting means, and had turned the breaker off, and someone else turned it back on while it was being worked on.

Hard and fast actual incidents, not someone who turned the wrong breaker off and didn't test it, or tried to work it hot.

I'd also like to know how many incidents there are of cords and switches connected to dishwashers that burn up.

One thing is for certain, any statistics released by the government will be severely slanted to support the regulations!

Rob
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:31 AM   #36
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


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Originally Posted by micromind View Post
Every residential dishwasher I've connected has been hard-wired, no switch, no cord-and-plug, and no breaker lock. I've yet to have any inspector question it.

It's possible that all of the local AHJs, or maybe even the state has ammended the code, or maybe it's just the way it's done around here.

I'd like to know just exactly how many people have ever been shocked while working on a dishwasher that had no disconnecting means, and had turned the breaker off, and someone else turned it back on while it was being worked on.

Hard and fast actual incidents, not someone who turned the wrong breaker off and didn't test it, or tried to work it hot.

I'd also like to know how many incidents there are of cords and switches connected to dishwashers that burn up.

One thing is for certain, any statistics released by the government will be severely slanted to support the regulations!

Rob
You dont need statisics, its code. I just dont get why people have to question why you need a disconnect for an appliance? It's quite obvious its for safety.

I personally would not work on a piece of equipment that I knew someone could re-energize at any time.

Last edited by chris75; 02-22-2009 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 10:36 AM   #37
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


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Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
You dont need statisics, its code. I just dont get why people have to question why you need a disconnect for an appliance? It's quite obvious its for safety.

I personally would not work on a piece of equipment that I knew someone could re-energize at any time.
But isn't that the case with anything on any branch circuit? You don't have a disconnect attached to receptacle when you are changing one out.
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:48 PM   #38
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


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But isn't that the case with anything on any branch circuit? You don't have a disconnect attached to receptacle when you are changing one out.
Yeah, and a receptacle is not a motor that is going to cut my head,arm, hand, finger, leg, or foot off of either.
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Old 02-22-2009, 04:54 PM   #39
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


So with that said.. back to my original question... i cant make up my mind.. Would it be ok to jump another receptacle from the DW outlet? - As long as i dont plug in a power sucking decapitating machine that will rip peoples arms off / (or A/C unit) will i be ok not to trip the circut / 20a to share here?

i'm going round in circles...
Please someone make up my mind!

Last edited by Casey_Oakland; 02-22-2009 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 05:43 PM   #40
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


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Originally Posted by Casey_Oakland View Post
So with that said.. back to my original question... i cant make up my mind.. Would it be ok to jump another receptacle from the DW outlet? - As long as i dont plug in a power sucking decapitating machine that will rip peoples arms off / (or A/C unit) will i be ok not to trip the circut?

i'm going round in circles...
Please someone make up my mind!
Most likely yes, but it really depends on what you had in mind.
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Old 02-22-2009, 05:52 PM   #41
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


I would also say yes, depending upon the power requirements of the DW
But, you said you want to run an AC off this?
What size AC? - They use a lot of juice

A 5000 BTU AC uses around 5a - not too bad
8000 around 7.6a - still not bad cools ~180 sq ft

Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 02-22-2009 at 05:56 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:01 PM   #42
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


well again / i understand a wall unit AC may be to much draw and surely trip the circut as stated before so I am resigned to just having it as extra outlet in the kitchen for anything else / vacum / radio / what ever...

Does anyone know what a modern (energy efficient) DW draw is and what the maximum size appliance that could be shared on a 20a circuit would be? Is even a small / tiny tiny AC out of the question / not a big kitchen..

Thanks again..

Last edited by Casey_Oakland; 02-22-2009 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:05 PM   #43
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey_Oakland View Post
well again / i understand a wall unit AC may be to much draw and surely trip the circut as stated before so I am resigned to just having it as extra outlet in the kitchen for anything else / vacum / radio / what ever...

Does any one know what a modern (energy efficient) DW draw is and what the maximum size appliance that could be shared on a 20a circuit would be? Is even a small / tiny tiny AC out of the question / not a big kitchen..

Thanks again..
Just look at the nameplates... both items cannot equal over 20 amps, and the DW cannot be more than 10 amps otherwise you cannot share that circuit. So start with the DW nameplate first to see if you can even share the circuit.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:14 PM   #44
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


looks like average for DW is 10-15 amps according to this..
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0134956AAjY94K

Not sure how accurate that is but it looks like i should play it safe and not bother with that outlet.
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Old 02-22-2009, 06:16 PM   #45
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Does a Dishwasher need it's own dedicated circuit?


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Originally Posted by Casey_Oakland View Post
looks like average for DW is 10-15 amps according to this..
> http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...0134956AAjY94K

Not sure how accurate that is but it looks like i should play it safe eh!?

After all this, you could have already had that new circuit pulled.

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