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Old 05-21-2011, 11:51 AM   #16
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


well, guys, I did it! Routed a 12 size wire through the back of the box, grounded it to a stake that was there already, all 4 receptacles are now grounded!! Thanks!

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Old 05-21-2011, 12:42 PM   #17
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


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well, guys, I did it! Routed a 12 size wire through the back of the box, grounded it to a stake that was there already, all 4 receptacles are now grounded!! Thanks!
You sure did. You created a code violation and still did not ground the receptacles. What a waste of time, materials and effort. This will also probably need to still be fixed when you sell the house if the home inspector catches it.

Ground rods do not provide a ground for receptacles. They are for events like lightning.
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Old 05-21-2011, 01:25 PM   #18
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


Ah man, You don't do it this way. All the writing, and the tips you've received from the pros was a waste of time.
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Old 05-21-2011, 02:50 PM   #19
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


Thanks, people. I know its a short cut. still, isnt it better than it was? Before yous imply I ignored/wasted your time here, all the tips here, as you say, were considered by myself, and I did persue them. You behave as if I ignored them- not true. As evident by how many days I took to follow them through, and make trips to that house miles away (there is no internet there). I follwed every tip and came up empty.

Ground tester checkd out all OK. Not sure if that tester is always true or not- I didnt invent it. BTW, yes, Im not an elec, but I was told by a local elec (just yesterday, as I met him in the neighborhood) that these houses around these parts have similar fixes, and even the city code people are aware of it- its just that they cant chase all them down to the end. This is not an area with all code housing, unfortunately.

The alternative was to hire a guy- sure, tear up the box maybe, pull permits, etc etc etc. This is a 100 year old house, and this work I did probably is the better of the elec "fixes", if you really want to know. Im not ready to tear the house down.

Still I appreciate very much your effort, and all in good faith. Just sometimes, you try to do the best under the circumstance.
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Old 05-21-2011, 03:04 PM   #20
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


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Thanks, people. I know its a short cut. still, isnt it better than it was? Before yous imply I ignored/wasted your time here, all the tips here, as you say, were considered by myself, and I did persue them. You behave as if I ignored them- not true. As evident by how many days I took to follow them through, and make trips to that house miles away (there is no internet there). I follwed every tip and came up empty.

Ground tester checkd out all OK. Not sure if that tester is always true or not- I didnt invent it. BTW, yes, Im not an elec, but I was told by a local elec (just yesterday, as I met him in the neighborhood) that these houses around these parts have similar fixes, and even the city code people are aware of it- its just that they cant chase all them down to the end. This is not an area with all code housing, unfortunately.

The alternative was to hire a guy- sure, tear up the box maybe, pull permits, etc etc etc. This is a 100 year old house, and this work I did probably is the better of the elec "fixes", if you really want to know. Im not ready to tear the house down.

Still I appreciate very much your effort, and all in good faith. Just sometimes, you try to do the best under the circumstance.
Noquacks,

Sending a wire from a receptacle to a ground rod does not ground the circuit, and it isn't any better than what you had before. In case of a short, the earth will not clear it. It would have been just as simple to put a GFCI receptacle on the circuit and mark it "no equipment ground".

The first thing you should do is to undo what you've done, then let us help you some more.

I aologize for the harsh words, but we want you to be safe, OK?
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:15 PM   #21
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


Where is the new ground rod? Outside?
You can take the new ground wire off the ground rod and run it along the siding, then through at a convenient point into the basement, and over to the panel and connect it to the panel ground bus. If you reached the existing fat ground wire between the panel and the entering cold water pipe then you can clamp the new 12 gauge ground wire there instead of going all the way to the panel.
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Old 05-21-2011, 05:38 PM   #22
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


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Noquacks,

Sending a wire from a receptacle to a ground rod does not ground the circuit, and it isn't any better than what you had before. In case of a short, the earth will not clear it. It would have been just as simple to put a GFCI receptacle on the circuit and mark it "no equipment ground".

The first thing you should do is to undo what you've done, then let us help you some more.

I aologize for the harsh words, but we want you to be safe, OK?
I get ya, Sirs- thanks, and I wasnt meaning to demand an apology- I apreciate your continued concern. OK, I will rethink this, as the way you explained it, I did no good, period. Now, what I dont get is why does that gadget that indicates the ground is "correct" (that is actually the word that shows up on the tester)? Pls explain WHY is that earth ground not adequate- I just wont sink in my head......

Maybe as Allan posted above, I could find a way to redirect that wire to the panel- drill in back of it(?) and ground it somewhere? Am I on track here?

Thanks, as always.

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Old 05-21-2011, 05:39 PM   #23
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


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Where is the new ground rod? Outside?
You can take the new ground wire off the ground rod and run it along the siding, then through at a convenient point into the basement, and over to the panel and connect it to the panel ground bus. If you reached the existing fat ground wire between the panel and the entering cold water pipe then you can clamp the new 12 gauge ground wire there instead of going all the way to the panel.
Right. New ground (deep sunk rod) is outside. No basement. House is on shell foundation/crawlspace below.......
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Old 05-21-2011, 08:23 PM   #24
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


I've always heard it said that running a separate ground wire back to the panel is illegal, so I'm not sure what Allan is thinking (he's definitley more experienced than I am). Perhaps he's thinking that the original run is single THHN instead of Romex.

At any rate, I think I'll leave the rest of this stuff to Speedy, Allan, et. al. Good luck, I'll be following for my own edification
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:24 AM   #25
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


Allen's suggestion is a better fix then a ground rod. Proper solution is to do it right. Figure out where the break is and learn how to do sheetrock repair and painting to boot! It will be fun to learn how to fix the problem correctly and not just wing it.

The tester is reading as if there is a ground there. Which is true. It's just a horrible dangerous ground that gives you a false sense of security.

What you want to do is bond the receptacle all the way back to the panel. In other words the ground wire (bonding wire really...) is connected to the ground wire (bonding wire really...) that is at the service. This provides a very low resistance path (the earth has a high resistance in this instance) back to where the electricity wants to go more than anything in the world which is the transformer outside your house where that ground wire was born, as it were.
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Old 05-22-2011, 08:48 AM   #26
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


It is within code to run a grounding conductor to the panel vaguely following the route of the power conductors, including on the wall surface. This permits the grounding of previously ungrounded receptacles without having to tear open the walls.

In the case of a home on a slab, the ground wire can still be run along the exterior wall on the way to the panel.

Adding a neutral, such as if trying to extend power from a switch with just raw hot and switched hot wires, cannot be done this way; neutrals (grounded conductors) must accompany the matching hot in the same cable or conduit.

Why is a ground rod at your house insufficient as a path for current returning to the utility pole transformer as the source? Because earth (dirt; soil; ground*) is not that great a conductor back to the ground rod at the utility pole.

Meanwhile the ground is the final destination for lightning although its poor conductivity together with the extremely high voltage difference between cloud and ground can still result in burning up of electrical wires and equipment and also widely varying voltage (potential) differences across the ground surface that can electrocute persons.

* As in (copied form another post):
(Customer) My coffee tastes like mud.
(Waiter) Well, it was ground this morning.
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:01 AM   #27
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


Big thanks, but how do I find the break? Info: its a simple square room, one receptacle on each wall, one doorway on one wall leading to other room. Do I start with an ohm meter? Will a $10 meter be adequate or do I not have the proper meter for this troubleshooting?

If this is way over my head, I will have to call a pro. Im still trying....

Last resort- do like allan said and go along exterior of house, inside wall, into panel from the front somehow)


Thaks!
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Old 05-22-2011, 09:25 AM   #28
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


You could get a toner set, sometimes called a fox and hound. This will let you trace the wiring without breaking open any walls.

Your splices should all be in accessible junction boxes so it should not be too hard to fix.
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:33 AM   #29
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


Great, Jim. I would definitely like to follow this up. Home Depot item? Less than $500? Easy to use?

Thanks! (just came back from there......whew. learned that 3 of the boxes have pigtails and one does not. )
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:43 AM   #30
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Do self grounding 110V receptacles really work?


Just found this on you tube. Does it work on the same idea if one uses it for a ground wire problem (like mine) instead of the cable example on the you tube?


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