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Old 04-25-2011, 07:22 AM   #76
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Do I need a sub panel here?


Not sure the thru the sill plate will fly if it is inspected. The ground connection(s) is supposed to always be available for inspection, if in the wall it might be covered up in the future.

Besides why drill thru the slab and footing in 2 locations if you don't have to.

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Old 04-25-2011, 07:37 AM   #77
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Do I need a sub panel here?


USE is fine and I agrre that it should be protected in conduit.
There is nothing wrong about calling an inspector and getting his input.
That is what they are suppose to do.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:10 AM   #78
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Do I need a sub panel here?


JS, yes, you need to isolate the neutral buss from ground all the way back to the main panel, but the panel you show may be set up to be a main and not a sub panel. I think that's why there are so many connection points on the neutral buss and no ground buss. If so, the neutral buss is already bonded to the box, probably thru that small copper screw at the bottom of the buss. A simple continuity check will tell for sure. Removing the screw should remove the bond.

By the way, judging from the keyholes, you have the box mounted upside down.

OK sparkys, set me straight!
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:22 AM   #79
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Do I need a sub panel here?


With that type panel there is usually a green screw (provided as an accessory) that screws thru the buss and makes contact with the box thus grounding the buss. It probably goes in that hole that is second from the bottom in your picture. But it is not used in your application. Yes it does look like the box is upside down.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:46 AM   #80
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Do I need a sub panel here?


Ok I'll check out the neutral bus and see if it has continuity with the box. Thanks for the tip there.

Funny you guys mention that it is upside down. I guess you are right - the keyholes definitely give it away. I didn't even notice the keyholes and I want you guys to know I must have looked a this and tried to figure it out for 30 minutes or more. It is not mounted in the wall, just stuck in the hole. I can flip it over - no big deal.

It is just confusing because it doesn't have the regular layout of a mian panel - you know the main breaker at top and two legs running down each side right and left.

I'm currently looking for a picture on the way it is supposed to be wired. Still confused on how the breaker which will be used as the disconnect is supposed to be wired, in relation to the others.
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:03 AM   #81
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Do I need a sub panel here?


From what I am reading, it seems that I need a breaker hold down kit to hold the breaker which will act as the main. If so, Where would I find one of these?
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:18 AM   #82
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Do I need a sub panel here?


Google THQLRK2 (GE part number). It's about eight bucks from what I saw.
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:37 AM   #83
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Google THQLRK2 (GE part number). It's about eight bucks from what I saw.
Thanks. I'll run by lowes and see if they have one. I have been doing some reading on back feeding. From what I can tell, the two hots go up and feed directly into the breaker. the neutral goes to the nuetral bar and the ground goes to the ground bar. What happens from here? will I have jumper wires going from the main to the lugs or something?

Another thing I was thinking about is whether or not the wires from the 2224 will fit in the breaker hold downs. That wire is 3/8" or a little less. Is that too big dia to push up into the holes?

I would assume that the bigger breakers may have larger wire hold downs, but what about something like a 60amp - I was planning on using about a 60amp in the sub panel as the disconnect breaker.
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Old 04-25-2011, 11:07 AM   #84
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Do I need a sub panel here?


After a little more reading I understand it like this:

The feeder coming in (from the main panel) goes to the breaker in the sub panel which will be used as a disconnect. That breaker can be anything as long as it is not under the rating of the feeder breaker in the main panel. So If I have a 60amp in the main panel, The diosconnect breaker in the sub panel needs to be 60 or above. If I have a 90 in the main panel, the breaker used as the disconnect in the sub panel needs to be 90 or above.

The two hots come in and connect to the breaker which will be used as a disconnect. The neutral goes to the neutral bus and the ground goes to the ground bus. Now, when the breaker which will be used at the main or disconnect in the subpanel is on, the panel is energized. when it is off, the panel is off. I think I have that right.

Still wondering if thoe 2224 wires will fit in the breaker wire slots.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:40 PM   #85
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From what I can tell, the two hots go up and feed directly into the breaker. the neutral goes to the nuetral bar and the ground goes to the ground bar. What happens from here? will I have jumper wires going from the main to the lugs or something?

No, no jumper wires. That would energize the panel no matter what position the disconnect was in.

Another thing I was thinking about is whether or not the wires from the 2224 will fit in the breaker hold downs. That wire is 3/8" or a little less. Is that too big dia to push up into the holes?

I would assume that the bigger breakers may have larger wire hold downs, but what about something like a 60amp - I was planning on using about a 60amp in the sub panel as the disconnect breaker.

According to the specs I've seen, #2 Al is the largest size for a 60 amp THQL

After a little more reading I understand it like this:

The feeder coming in (from the main panel) goes to the breaker in the sub panel which will be used as a disconnect. That breaker can be anything as long as it is not under the rating of the feeder breaker in the main panel. So If I have a 60amp in the main panel, The diosconnect breaker in the sub panel needs to be 60 or above. If I have a 90 in the main panel, the breaker used as the disconnect in the sub panel needs to be 90 or above.

Where is that info from? The breaker in the main panel is sized to protect your feeder cable, in your case it needs to be 90 amp or less. The disconnect in your sub is just that-a disconnect. It could be 90 or 60 or 15 or 200 it doesn't matter. If it's larger than the main panel breaker the main panel breaker would trip first in the event of a fault. If it's smaller than your main panel breaker it would trip first and save you a trip to the house.
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:50 PM   #86
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Do I need a sub panel here?


It would be foolish to have the disconnect in the sub at a smaller capacity than the feeder breaker. you would not be able to use the full capacity of the sub panel. Larger is fine but not smaller than the feeder.
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:09 PM   #87
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Do I need a sub panel here?


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It would be foolish to have the disconnect in the sub at a smaller capacity than the feeder breaker. you would not be able to use the full capacity of the sub panel. Larger is fine but not smaller than the feeder.
Very true rj. The only upside would be saving that trip back to the main panel for a reset. If I were in JS's shoes (rubber soled of course) I'd just stick a 90 at both ends and be done with it! $38 for the THQL 90 amp at Amazon. Just my 2.

Actually I would have gotten that first panel you suggested with the 100 amp main and five 20s included. $69 in my neck of the woods at HD.

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Old 04-25-2011, 06:24 PM   #88
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Do I need a sub panel here?


The disconnect at the sub MUST be as large or larger than the breaker feeding the panel.
If he runs a 90 amp circuit, and uses the 90 amp breaker at the house, he must have a 90 amp or larger breaker in the sub.

Check the panel.
It will tell you the largest breaker that you can put in.

You would have been better off buying a 100 amp main breaker panel and be done with it.

By the time you buy a 90 amp breaker, and hold down kit, you could have paid for the main breaker panel.
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Old 04-26-2011, 07:11 AM   #89
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Do I need a sub panel here?


Quote:
The disconnect at the sub MUST be as large or larger than the breaker feeding the panel.
If he runs a 90 amp circuit, and uses the 90 amp breaker at the house, he must have a 90 amp or larger breaker in the sub.
Thank you jb. It's the pros, such as yourself, on this site that make it such a valuable resource for the rest of us. I'm sure your reply is code driven, and far be it from me to argue, but could you explain the reasoning behind this requirement? I'm just trying to learn something.
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Old 04-26-2011, 07:28 AM   #90
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Just to follow up here, I double checked the panel last night when I got home and found that it actually is right side up (at least it is for the way I am going to use it). It is actually either way - the panel can be mounted like this or 180 degrees, depending on the way the service enters the box. All labels on the panel are printed with a top and bottom, one being upside down. So if you look at one of the danger labels on the front, it is printed upside down right on top of the right side up one..

I figure most services in the situation of a garage or outbuilding come up from the ground. I'm sure there are some that come in from the top with the weather head and all, but the burried feeder coming up to the panel is probably more common. Either way, the knockouts for the main line coming into the box are only on one side. The way I have it turned is correct for my application, because if I were to turn it over there would be no hole for the service to come up in to. There are branch circuit knockouts on top and bottom, but only one service entry knockout.

As far as the biggest breaker the box can hold..All I see is 125amp maximum. I could not find anything printed on the box anywhere that said "max breaker size" or the like..

Although I would have liked to have bought a main panel Like you guys are suggesting, I really don't need all that space. Those are about twice the size and a little wider too. The box I have has 8 spaces and 16 circuits, so I don't think there will be an issue. This is a small 12 x 16 building. I just don't see the need for any more space than I have. Thank you for the suggestions though.

A concern that I do have is that after reading about backfeeding a breaker to "create a main breaker", I see that many people frown on it. Why are there so many different things I see on the internet about people thinking it is not correct? It is within code isn't it?

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