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Old 11-05-2012, 07:16 AM   #1
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Do I need conduit?


So I installed a 220v outlet in my garage. It has 2 #10 hots and a #10 ground. I was able to pull the wire through existing conduit all the way into the garage. But where I wanted the outlet, I cut through the drywall about 15' and just put the wires into the wall, then caulked up the cut, put masking tape over it and painted over it. I know this probably isn't up to code, but is there any risk to this? I'm using a 30amp breaker so if the wires start to heat up from load it'll trip the breaker. Unless I have a flying shard of metal that shoots through the wall, I don't see how this could pose any risks? Thought'd I'd ask the experts! Thanks in advance!

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Old 11-05-2012, 07:22 AM   #2
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Do I need conduit?


First off, this IS a CODE VIOLATION. Why is it dangerous?

1) You say the breaker will trip if there is heat in the walls. That 30A circuit breaker at 240V could put 7200 watts into the wall continuously and never trip. Would you bury 4 running hair dryers in your wall? That what the equivalent is.

2) What happens if the wire was nicked by some metal object, such as a drywall screw? With no grounding the metal object will be energized. What if that screw holds a hook for a chain to hang on. Now you have an energized chain and a concrete floor with no GFCI protection. Sound like fun to me.

No wonder DIYers scare the crap out of trained electricians.

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Old 11-05-2012, 08:14 AM   #3
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Do I need conduit?


What he said above!!
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:56 AM   #4
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Do I need conduit?


What about running some flexible conduit throughout the wall? Still only the 15' or so. I have some of the liquid tight stuff. I know there is still a slight risk sticking a nail or driving a screw through the conduit but not really because the conduit can move.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:41 AM   #5
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Do I need conduit?


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Originally Posted by Econdron View Post
What about running some flexible conduit throughout the wall? Still only the 15' or so. I have some of the liquid tight stuff. I know there is still a slight risk sticking a nail or driving a screw through the conduit but not really because the conduit can move.
That will work as long as the conduit stays inside the wall not subject to any form of physical damage. You will need a transition box where the other existing conduit meets the liquid tight.


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I cut through the drywall about 15' and just put the wires into the wall, then caulked up the cut, put masking tape over it and painted over it.
Is this how you did the individual wires ....
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:57 AM   #6
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Yeah something like that where the studs were. Though I'll cut holes in the studs for the conduit so it will be completely in the wall.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:05 PM   #7
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Do I need conduit?


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I cut through the drywall about 15' and just put the wires into the wall, then caulked up the cut, put masking tape over it and painted over it.
Much as some people might wish this would be against code, in truth, it is allowed in single-family residential structures unless your AHJ has decided otherwise. Think about it. Does any house you've ever been in have conduit to every switch and box? No.

Commercial buildings are another story. That's why there is sometimes confusion about this. If you ask an electrician who does commercial/industrial all day he'll probably think, no you can't do that, because in his environments you can't. Residences see fewer changes and remodels and it's up to tradesmen to be careful when they cut into a wall or de-energize the house first because there isn't conduit protecting the wires.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:18 PM   #8
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Much as some people might wish this would be against code, in truth, it is allowed in single-family residential structures unless your AHJ has decided otherwise. Think about it. Does any house you've ever been in have conduit to every switch and box? No.

Commercial buildings are another story. That's why there is sometimes confusion about this. If you ask an electrician who does commercial/industrial all day he'll probably think, no you can't do that, because in his environments you can't. Residences see fewer changes and remodels and it's up to tradesmen to be careful when they cut into a wall or de-energize the house first because there isn't conduit protecting the wires.
Got a code section that says you can run individual conductors with out being in a raceway?
It has nothing to do with residential or commercial.
You are wrong and should not be giving electrical advice if this is the best you can do!
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:26 PM   #9
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Got a code section that says you can run individual conductors with out being in a raceway?
Surely the poster has run NM-B or something, not individual conductors.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:29 PM   #10
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Surely the poster has run NM-B or something, not individual conductors.
I read it as individual conductors in his first thread.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:57 PM   #11
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Surely the poster has run NM-B or something, not individual conductors.
That's a pretty big assumption. Furthermore it's a big assumption that someone else will make your assumption when they read this later down the line.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:28 PM   #12
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That's a pretty big assumption. Furthermore it's a big assumption that someone else will make your assumption when they read this later down the line.
It's just as big an assumption to leap to the conclusion that the guy has installed individual conductors. You could ask him before knee-jerking that he needs a conduit.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:29 PM   #13
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Do I need conduit?


Quote:
It has 2 #10 hots and a #10 ground. I was able to pull the wire through existing conduit all the way into the garage. But where I wanted the outlet, I cut through the drywall about 15' and just put the wires into the wall, then caulked up the cut, put masking tape over it and painted over it.
What part of the above quote from the OP implies he ran NM?
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:52 PM   #14
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Do I need conduit?


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So I installed a 220v outlet in my garage. It has 2 #10 hots and a #10 ground. I was able to pull the wire through existing conduit all the way into the garage.
Is this a detached garage? If so we have some other bad news for you.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffsw6 View Post
Much as some people might wish this would be against code, in truth, it is allowed in single-family residential structures unless your AHJ has decided otherwise. Think about it. Does any house you've ever been in have conduit to every switch and box? No.

Commercial buildings are another story. That's why there is sometimes confusion about this. If you ask an electrician who does commercial/industrial all day he'll probably think, no you can't do that, because in his environments you can't. Residences see fewer changes and remodels and it's up to tradesmen to be careful when they cut into a wall or de-energize the house first because there isn't conduit protecting the wires.
Another DIY to scare the crap out of me. There are a whole list of rules in 300 and 334 that govern the installation of NM cable to protect it from damage. Even if it was NM it wouldn't have been legal under mud and masking tape. Try to have a clue before you contradict professionals.

Mark

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