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-   -   Do I need conduit? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/do-i-need-conduit-162243/)

Econdron 11-05-2012 08:16 AM

Do I need conduit?
 
So I installed a 220v outlet in my garage. It has 2 #10 hots and a #10 ground. I was able to pull the wire through existing conduit all the way into the garage. But where I wanted the outlet, I cut through the drywall about 15' and just put the wires into the wall, then caulked up the cut, put masking tape over it and painted over it. I know this probably isn't up to code, but is there any risk to this? I'm using a 30amp breaker so if the wires start to heat up from load it'll trip the breaker. Unless I have a flying shard of metal that shoots through the wall, I don't see how this could pose any risks? Thought'd I'd ask the experts! Thanks in advance!

busman 11-05-2012 08:22 AM

Holy Cr&p
 
First off, this IS a CODE VIOLATION. Why is it dangerous?

1) You say the breaker will trip if there is heat in the walls. That 30A circuit breaker at 240V could put 7200 watts into the wall continuously and never trip. Would you bury 4 running hair dryers in your wall? That what the equivalent is.

2) What happens if the wire was nicked by some metal object, such as a drywall screw? With no grounding the metal object will be energized. What if that screw holds a hook for a chain to hang on. Now you have an energized chain and a concrete floor with no GFCI protection. Sound like fun to me.

No wonder DIYers scare the crap out of trained electricians.

Mark

jbfan 11-05-2012 09:14 AM

What he said above!!

Econdron 11-05-2012 10:56 AM

What about running some flexible conduit throughout the wall? Still only the 15' or so. I have some of the liquid tight stuff. I know there is still a slight risk sticking a nail or driving a screw through the conduit but not really because the conduit can move.

Stubbie 11-05-2012 11:41 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Econdron (Post 1045188)
What about running some flexible conduit throughout the wall? Still only the 15' or so. I have some of the liquid tight stuff. I know there is still a slight risk sticking a nail or driving a screw through the conduit but not really because the conduit can move.

That will work as long as the conduit stays inside the wall not subject to any form of physical damage. You will need a transition box where the other existing conduit meets the liquid tight.


Quote:

I cut through the drywall about 15' and just put the wires into the wall, then caulked up the cut, put masking tape over it and painted over it.
Is this how you did the individual wires .... :)

Econdron 11-05-2012 11:57 AM

Yeah something like that where the studs were. Though I'll cut holes in the studs for the conduit so it will be completely in the wall.

jeffsw6 11-05-2012 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Econdron (Post 1045103)
I cut through the drywall about 15' and just put the wires into the wall, then caulked up the cut, put masking tape over it and painted over it.

Much as some people might wish this would be against code, in truth, it is allowed in single-family residential structures unless your AHJ has decided otherwise. Think about it. Does any house you've ever been in have conduit to every switch and box? No.

Commercial buildings are another story. That's why there is sometimes confusion about this. If you ask an electrician who does commercial/industrial all day he'll probably think, no you can't do that, because in his environments you can't. Residences see fewer changes and remodels and it's up to tradesmen to be careful when they cut into a wall or de-energize the house first because there isn't conduit protecting the wires.

jbfan 11-05-2012 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffsw6 (Post 1045357)
Much as some people might wish this would be against code, in truth, it is allowed in single-family residential structures unless your AHJ has decided otherwise. Think about it. Does any house you've ever been in have conduit to every switch and box? No.

Commercial buildings are another story. That's why there is sometimes confusion about this. If you ask an electrician who does commercial/industrial all day he'll probably think, no you can't do that, because in his environments you can't. Residences see fewer changes and remodels and it's up to tradesmen to be careful when they cut into a wall or de-energize the house first because there isn't conduit protecting the wires.

Got a code section that says you can run individual conductors with out being in a raceway?
It has nothing to do with residential or commercial.
You are wrong and should not be giving electrical advice if this is the best you can do!

jeffsw6 11-05-2012 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbfan (Post 1045367)
Got a code section that says you can run individual conductors with out being in a raceway?

Surely the poster has run NM-B or something, not individual conductors.

jbfan 11-05-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffsw6 (Post 1045372)
Surely the poster has run NM-B or something, not individual conductors.

I read it as individual conductors in his first thread.

info2x 11-05-2012 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffsw6 (Post 1045372)
Surely the poster has run NM-B or something, not individual conductors.

That's a pretty big assumption. Furthermore it's a big assumption that someone else will make your assumption when they read this later down the line.

jeffsw6 11-05-2012 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by info2x (Post 1045393)
That's a pretty big assumption. Furthermore it's a big assumption that someone else will make your assumption when they read this later down the line.

It's just as big an assumption to leap to the conclusion that the guy has installed individual conductors. You could ask him before knee-jerking that he needs a conduit.

k_buz 11-05-2012 04:29 PM

Quote:

It has 2 #10 hots and a #10 ground. I was able to pull the wire through existing conduit all the way into the garage. But where I wanted the outlet, I cut through the drywall about 15' and just put the wires into the wall, then caulked up the cut, put masking tape over it and painted over it.
What part of the above quote from the OP implies he ran NM?

danpik 11-05-2012 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Econdron (Post 1045103)
So I installed a 220v outlet in my garage. It has 2 #10 hots and a #10 ground. I was able to pull the wire through existing conduit all the way into the garage.

Is this a detached garage? If so we have some other bad news for you.

busman 11-05-2012 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffsw6 (Post 1045357)
Much as some people might wish this would be against code, in truth, it is allowed in single-family residential structures unless your AHJ has decided otherwise. Think about it. Does any house you've ever been in have conduit to every switch and box? No.

Commercial buildings are another story. That's why there is sometimes confusion about this. If you ask an electrician who does commercial/industrial all day he'll probably think, no you can't do that, because in his environments you can't. Residences see fewer changes and remodels and it's up to tradesmen to be careful when they cut into a wall or de-energize the house first because there isn't conduit protecting the wires.

Another DIY to scare the crap out of me. There are a whole list of rules in 300 and 334 that govern the installation of NM cable to protect it from damage. Even if it was NM it wouldn't have been legal under mud and masking tape. Try to have a clue before you contradict professionals.

Mark


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