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-   -   Do canned lights overheat? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/do-canned-lights-overheat-4894/)

Not Sure 11-19-2006 07:06 AM

Do canned lights overheat?
 
Hi!

I have these two small (4 inch, I think) canned lights above a plant shelf in the hallway. They are both on the same on/off switch.

I turned them on for an open house. About an hour and a half into the open house, I noticed they were off.

Strange.

So, I turned off the switch.

Later I went to show my spouse that they were not working. I flipped the switch and guess what? They came on!

So, I am assuming the cans overheated???

I will leave a note for the electician on Monday. (This is a new home built to be sold.) Is this a problem that can be fixed easily?

(There are canned lights in the bedroom, great room, and kitchen. They all seem to be working fine.)

mdshunk 11-19-2006 11:56 AM

They absolutely overheat. They have a thermal switch inside that will shut themselves down to cool off.

You need to check the label inside the can for the max wattage and lamp type. I believe you have it overlamped, or you have it insulated when it is not permitted to be.

Not Sure 11-20-2006 05:18 AM

I'm curiuos...

What do you mean when you say they may be insulated when they are not suppose to be? There is R30 blown insulation in the ceiling. You would think an electriian would check the bulb wattage and type...

Anyway, the electrian will be here today??? I will let him know there is a problem. And, this problem won't show when he first turns on the lights.

jbfan 11-20-2006 07:37 AM

If the cans are not rated to be in contact with the insulation, and are covered with insulation, then the can will over heat even with the correct bulb.

Not Sure 11-20-2006 08:18 AM

Thanks for the suggestions, jpfan and mdshunk! I will ask the electrician if the cans are rated to be in contact with insulation and if he has followed the max wattage and lamp type requirements. Thanks to this web site, when I talk with the subcontractors I at least sound like I know a little something about the problems I am addressing. I really do appreciate the time you have taken to get back with me!

dougrus 11-20-2006 11:31 AM

For conversations sake (with your electrician), they are reffered to as IC or NON-IC cans.

Not Sure 11-21-2006 10:45 PM

Talked with the electrician...

He says the cans are IC rated. I asked. My dad put in some lower wattage lamps and the cans haven't been shutting off. I asked the electrician on the phone why he would put too large of a lamp in... His reply wasn't clear.

I'll be checking out the situation, looking at the cans' stickers. I want to make sure those cans are IC rated! I want to make sure the new lamps with a lower wattage are enough to light the plant ledge in a desirable manner.

I'll update my thread tomorrow.

dougrus 11-22-2006 06:24 AM

Also, if you can, tell us the model, the model number maybe and perhaps any other information you can find on the housing. It will help figure out if it is the proper light for the application and also, what type of lamp you should be using.
Do you have access to these lights from the attic or is it under a second floor?
Sometimes, if you unscrew the bulb, you can see a sticker up inside the housing that has a lot of this information.

Not Sure 11-22-2006 09:33 AM

There is no attic.

The house is a single story flat roof with trusses only.

Southwest contempory design...

I will get all the info. I can off the inside of the can. I will also ask the electrician for the brand. He wants final payment today. I think perhaps I should hold back a hundred bucks if I'm not satisfied with the amount of light given off by the lower wattage lamps, if the can is able to support a higher wattage.

We'll see...

Not Sure 11-22-2006 08:31 PM

So, the cans do not have any info. on the inside! Kind-of hard to believe, but true.

The lower wattage lamps are working fine and stay on for hours without problems. They seem to be bright enough, also. Thanks for the suggestion to change them out.

I will be talking to the electrician Friday to settle up. (I have the day off my regular job.) I had my dad pay off the contract price today. I still have to deal with paying for the change orders. I will ask the electrician about the can brand then, and ask where the wattage and lamp type info. can be located.

Thank you, all, for all your responses. I really am learning a lot!!!

mdshunk 11-22-2006 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Sure (Post 24507)
So, the cans do not have any info. on the inside! Kind-of hard to believe, but true.

That's interesting. I'm not even sure if the lights meet the UL requirements without that label inside. It is possible that the painters sprayed the inside of the can, covering the label. It is also possible the someone peeled off the lables to cover up the fact that they are non-IC cans or that they can't be lamped at as high of a wattage as you originally specified.

Yes, here we go, from the 2006 UL Marking Guide for Luminaires:

USER MARKINGS


66. LAMP REPLACEMENT MARKINGS
— Incandescent and HID type luminaires and track lighting
luminaire assemblies are required to be marked with lamp replacement markings. This marking may be
used in combination with the trim correlation marking in recessed luminaires (See Note 72). Generally, most
fluorescent luminaires are not provided with lamp replacement markings (See Note 67 for compact
fluorescent lamps). The lamp replacement marking for incandescent luminaires will state, “CAUTION - RISK
OF FIRE. MAX ___ W(ATTS) TYPE ___”, where the blanks are filled in with lamp type and wattage, and may
include the word “SHIELDED” if intended for use with a tungsten-halogen lamp which has an integral shield.
HID-type luminaries are provided with a lamp replacement marking identifying the replacement lamp wattage
and ANSI designation

72. RECESSED LUMINAIRE LAMP REPLACEMENT MARKINGS


— Recessed luminaire housing or
rough-in section may employ a marking system where the lamp replacement marking is dependent upon
the trim or finishing section used. A luminaire housing is marked “USE ONLY WITH [Manufacturer] [Catalog
Number] TRIMS”. A rough-in section is marked “ROUGH-IN SECTION FOR USE WITH FINISHING
SECTION ______”. The blanks are filled in with manufacturer and trim or finishing section number as
appropriate. All recessed luminaries are marked for lamp replacement “CAUTION – RISK OF FIRE. MAX
___ WATTS ___ TYPE”. A recessed luminaire that requires a different lamp wattage or type for an alternate
trim or finishing section is marked “CAUTION – RISK OF FIRE” and a table specifying the trim or finishing
section and the maximum lamp wattage and type permitted for use with it. Alternately the lamp replacement
information can be included on the trim or finishing section. The lamp replacement markings can be
concealed providing the trim or finishing section must be removed for relamping or it is additionally marked
where visible during relamping “SEE OTHER (BACK) SIDE FOR RELAMPING INFORMATION.”


Not Sure 11-22-2006 11:53 PM

Yes, here we go, from the 2006 UL Marking Guide for Luminaires:

USER MARKINGS

66. LAMP REPLACEMENT MARKINGS
— Incandescent and HID type luminaires and track lighting

luminaire assemblies are required to be marked with lamp replacement markings. This marking may be

used in combination with the trim correlation marking in recessed luminaires (See Note 72). Generally, most
fluorescent luminaires are not provided with lamp replacement markings (See Note 67 for compact
fluorescent lamps). The lamp replacement marking for incandescent luminaires will state, “CAUTION - RISK
OF FIRE. MAX ___ W(ATTS) TYPE ___”, where the blanks are filled in with lamp type and wattage, and may
include the word “SHIELDED” if intended for use with a tungsten-halogen lamp which has an integral shield.
HID-type luminaries are provided with a lamp replacement marking identifying the replacement lamp wattage
and ANSI designation

72. RECESSED LUMINAIRE LAMP REPLACEMENT MARKINGS




— Recessed luminaire housing or


rough-in section may employ a marking system where the lamp replacement marking is dependent upon

the trim or finishing section used. A luminaire housing is marked “USE ONLY WITH [Manufacturer] [Catalog
Number] TRIMS”. A rough-in section is marked “ROUGH-IN SECTION FOR USE WITH FINISHING
SECTION ______”. The blanks are filled in with manufacturer and trim or finishing section number as
appropriate. All recessed luminaries are marked for lamp replacement “CAUTION – RISK OF FIRE. MAX
___ WATTS ___ TYPE”. A recessed luminaire that requires a different lamp wattage or type for an alternate
trim or finishing section is marked “CAUTION – RISK OF FIRE” and a table specifying the trim or finishing
section and the maximum lamp wattage and type permitted for use with it. Alternately the lamp replacement
information can be included on the trim or finishing section. The lamp replacement markings can be
concealed providing the trim or finishing section must be removed for relamping or it is additionally marked
where visible during relamping “SEE OTHER (BACK) SIDE FOR RELAMPING INFORMATION.”






[/quote]

Good information to have! I will copy the section above and present it to the electician.

troubleseeker 11-24-2006 10:44 PM

Sounds like someone may have crammed insulation to them and the thermal protectors are cutting out. If not, have electrician replace the thermal switches, I have had bad ones in brand new cans.Do you have proper bulbs in them? We often install regular bulbs during construction, and they seem to cause small cans to go off . I have been told they allow to much heat to go up into the can, thus tripping the thermal.

Not Sure 11-26-2006 01:32 AM

With the lower wattage of lamp, the lights are staying on with no problems... and they do appear to be bright enough for what I need. (9' 4" high plant ledge/ 12' high ceiling)

I want some kind of proof that the cans are IC rated, though. I feel this is pretty important information to have. I called the electrician on Friday and left a voice mail. No response yet, but he may have been out of town for Thanksgiving or something.

I had my husband climb up on that plant ledge with a flashlight and look into the cans. One had a sticker way up in the can with some info., but he had a hard time understanding it. He tried reading some of the stuff off and it sounded like it was stating what wattages were good for which models. I don't know which model I have. He said there was nothing about the can being IC or non IC. My husband could not see a sticker in the other can.

When I get with the electrician, I'll make another post...

Not Sure 12-27-2006 08:44 AM

Just wanted everyone to know...
My solution to this problem, put new cans in.


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