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Old 07-20-2012, 10:37 PM   #1
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Do accessible rules apply for outdoor jbox?


Do the "accessible" rules/code apply for outdoor electrical lines in conduit?
I am aware that if you splice a line inside you can't just put drywall over the jbox. You have to make it accessible to later.
I would assume the same rules apply for outdoors and maybe are even more restrictive.

My swimming pool has a light switch that was installed at the rear of my house.
I am putting a patio in and moving the switch to the side of the house where the pool equipment is.
I can't (easily) run an entire home run new line to the light because the conduit goes under the pool concrete.
So I am going to splice in where the old switch was.

I could have a small piece of gray conduit stick up out of the patio and then put a small jbox and then go back down into the patio.
Is there any alternative that I could put the jbox, etc for the splice under the patio pavers so that don't have to see it?
If a box is rated for waterproof and I am using waterproof nuts is that acceptable?
Can I try to make it flush with the pavers?
Or is there a height above the pavers it must apply?

The wires are THHN/THWN and installed in gray PVC.
I live in Western PA, so there will be freeze in the winter and hot/humid summers.

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Old 07-20-2012, 11:13 PM   #2
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Do accessible rules apply for outdoor jbox?


What exactly is are you relocating, the pool light conduit or just the switch leg that turns them on or something unrelated?

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Old 07-21-2012, 10:05 AM   #3
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Do accessible rules apply for outdoor jbox?


The original installation had 12 feet of conduit from the breaker then a 90 to wrap around the house, then 20 feet of conduit then up to the switch.

From the switch, more conduit run to the pool where the light is.

So I want to just tie the the existing switch wires together in a jbox. Then at the breaker panel on the side of the house, install a new switch a couple of feet away from the breaker box.

Where the old switch was it ran about 3-4 feet up from the ground to the switch box. This is where I would tie all the lines together (the whites and greens already connected, the blacks on the switch). But instead of two pieces of conduit running up the side of my house. I 'd like to locate this jbox at a lower level to be better cosmetically.

So what I am asking is if I could put a waterproof jbox flush with the new patio or if it has to be up in the air. I can more than live with a gray plate near a paver. If I could put a paver on top of it all the better but I view that is probably not to code. I'd like to avoid the jbox attached or running up the house like the old switch did.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:12 AM   #4
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Do accessible rules apply for outdoor jbox?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonC_1972 View Post
The original installation had 12 feet of conduit from the breaker then a 90 to wrap around the house, then 20 feet of conduit then up to the switch.

From the switch, more conduit run to the pool where the light is.


You are going to have to install a rated junction box listed for a swimming pool, and you are going to have to leave the box above 8" of the maximum water level...


Last edited by stickboy1375; 07-21-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:54 PM   #5
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Do accessible rules apply for outdoor jbox?


Thanks for the awesome graphic. I should have said that after the switch it goes to that raise jbox which also holds some circuitry for the LED light itself.

I want to convert the existing switch to a jbox and lower it. I will then install a switch near the breaker box.

See my picaso drawing. The gray is the conduit for the existing path. The gray to the left of the water (just outside the concrete on left) is the raised jbox you mention in your reply.

The arrow pointing right near the house is the existing switch. I want this to be a jbox and preferably flush/not an eyesore. The arrow pointing left is where the new switch will be installed.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:54 PM   #6
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Do accessible rules apply for outdoor jbox?


sorry forgot the picaso!
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:00 AM   #7
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Do accessible rules apply for outdoor jbox?


The problem I see with what you want to do is this... The grounding conductor cannot must be installed without joint or splice, A snap switch is an exception to the rule, so once you remove the snap switch, that leaves a little bit of an issue....

You would have to pull a new grounding conductor from the deck pool light box to the new switch box or panel, depending on how you re work the conduit. The grounding conductor MUST be #12 AWG minimum, and insulated.



What I normally do when wiring pools is run the pool lights to the pool light junction box, then pipe directly back to the panel, this way I'm free to use any other wiring method to control the pool lights.
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Old 07-28-2012, 11:01 PM   #8
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Do accessible rules apply for outdoor jbox?


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
What I normally do when wiring pools is run the pool lights to the pool light junction box, then pipe directly back to the panel, this way I'm free to use any other wiring method to control the pool lights.
What do you mean by this? If you pipe directly to the panel then you have no ability to do a switch (unless you view the breaker as a viable switch option). If you are saying that the rules are not applicable from the jbox that sits above ground like the image you have above to the panel then that is the boat I am in.




I see what you mean and the code I believe you are referring to is 680.23.f correct? Is this restriction because of underwater? The bonding ground doesn't have this same restriction.

Now that I think of it, I could just do an entire new conduit and home run the entire leg. I just have to see the hassle of breaking into the "dry" side of the conduit in the diagram you have above.

You mention the restriction for the ground. What about for the hot and neutral? Can I jbox them? If I am running an new ground I will do the whole thing but curious on restrictions.

In theory I could use the existing conduit and just pull all the new lines by attach and pulling the old ones. But if I/they get stuck then that kills the whole deal.

Is there any restriction on the snap switch? Specifically, I have this all fed into a double gang box that have to regular single pole switches (covered by red dot red switch water covers). The other light switch in the box is going to two lights near the pole (on top of small columns). Out of the double gang I use a 3/4 inch liquid tight that has six lines for the 2 switches then into individual GFI breakers. I ran individual ground lines even though I in theory do not have to. But with this restriction on the pool light I am glad it is separate.

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