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Old 07-14-2013, 10:55 PM   #16
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I'd check your area requirements and do the math with both turned on on that 20 amp ,see what it pulls.where some are its required to be seperate individual circuit....next yr will require gfci,may be just new ones though..

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Old 07-14-2013, 10:58 PM   #17
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This part is common but I will fill ya in a little bit.,




What the nameplate rating on both dishwashwer et garbage dispoal unit ?

Techallywise if the ampacity is not over 50% of what the circuit is rated for so like example on 15 amp circuit it can not be over 7.5 amps or 10 amp on 20 amp circuit.

Merci,
Marc
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Marc, you left out the part that with the Dishwasher & Garbage disposal, the two of them cannot exceed the max breaker rating of 20 amps, and the 80% does not come into play in this type of setup.
Greg.,

I know but what I should reworded it should say either garbage dispoal and dishwasher do not excessed 7.5 amp ( for each unit ) on 15 amp circuit ou 10 amp either unit on 20 amp circuit.

And of course I did not throw 80% rating at all I keep that out due the time window for 80% rating do not meet the requirement at all.

Sorry about that if I did stated wrong.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:17 PM   #18
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Marc, there is not a Exceed amount on either, it is just that the two together do not exceed the max rating of the single breaker. But due to changes in this tidbit, municipalities no longer allow the two to share on the same breaker, because people could not figure out how to do the math, and some would put in a larger disposal not thinking that it would exceed the max rating for the breaker.

Now you are required to have a separate beaker for each appliance, whether it is a Tandem, Double pole, or two breakers with a handle tie for a MWBC, or Quad with two of the poles for the MWBC, or just a single pole for each, if the person feels like pulling just one line of 12/2, not a line of 12/3.

Of course with the 2014 NEC, they have changed the GFCI requirements, and now Dishwashers and Disposals are now required to be on GFCI outlets or breakers, so there goes using MWBC, so you do not have to pull two lines of #12 for both.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Marc, there is not a Exceed amount on either, it is just that the two together do not exceed the max rating of the single breaker. But due to changes in this tidbit, municipalities no longer allow the two to share on the same breaker, because people could not figure out how to do the math, and some would put in a larger disposal not thinking that it would exceed the max rating for the breaker.

I know some of the metro area they are no longer to do this set up at all and with my French Nomes they are not legit anymore they changed that about 10 years back.

Now you are required to have a separate beaker for each appliance, whether it is a Tandem, Double pole, or two breakers with a handle tie for a MWBC, or Quad with two of the poles for the MWBC, or just a single pole for each, if the person feels like pulling just one line of 12/2, not a line of 12/3.

Normally I useally bring MWBC for this useage and use full two pole breaker for this useage but some peoples will never think ahead of the timewise.

Of course with the 2014 NEC, they have changed the GFCI requirements, and now Dishwashers and Disposals are now required to be on GFCI outlets or breakers, so there goes using MWBC, so you do not have to pull two lines of #12 for both.
It much cheaper just run single lines for each unit as we do know the cost of GFCI breakers run otherwise use the dead front GFCI will suit this useage pretty well.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:36 PM   #20
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That is how I am going to do mine, once I finish with my Kitchen remodel. Right now with the portable dishwasher we have, it got put where the fridge used to sit, and shares the same outlet as the counter top microwave. So if you want to heat something up while the dishwasher is running, you have to pop the door open on the microwave.

But already that outlet is a GFCI, due to it was intended originally during the remodel to be a counter outlet, not how we are using it now.

Hate remodels, but hopefully will have mine done sometime next year, as long as the leaves break, and we have another major surgery in the household. This time it was for my wife to repair a Genetic disorder of the brain called Chiari Malformation (sorry for the side track, just wanted to add that everyone, since I have been quite about it on here).

If we are all smart, we will hurry up our electrical remodels and new builds, before 2014 changes everything, that you have to have AFCI breakers or outlets in every room, on every floor, including attics, and GFCI protection on every outlet in the Kitchen.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:12 AM   #21
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That is how I am going to do mine, once I finish with my Kitchen remodel. Right now with the portable dishwasher we have, it got put where the fridge used to sit, and shares the same outlet as the counter top microwave. So if you want to heat something up while the dishwasher is running, you have to pop the door open on the microwave.


I do understand what ya facing with that situation what you have in the kitchen right now it was about the same pattern was one of my customer many years ago but found few bad connections on that place and told the owner of that place if wait little longer no question asked the fire will start due there were a hidden break in the conductor.

But already that outlet is a GFCI, due to it was intended originally during the remodel to be a counter outlet, not how we are using it now.

Ya never know what it will come up with remodeling and some case something can change your game plans a bit.

Hate remodels, but hopefully will have mine done sometime next year, as long as the leaves break, and we have another major surgery in the household. This time it was for my wife to repair a Genetic disorder of the brain called Chiari Malformation (sorry for the side track, just wanted to add that everyone, since I have been quite about it on here).

I hope it will come out ok with your wife on that situation.


If we are all smart, we will hurry up our electrical remodels and new builds, before 2014 changes everything, that you have to have AFCI breakers or outlets in every room, on every floor, including attics, and GFCI protection on every outlet in the Kitchen.
The main key issue is when you pull the permit and have that permit dated for that code cycle so you should be ok on current code cycle unless your state do adopt the new codes ( useally after the first of the year unless admented somewhere else.) and will give ya some grace period but not very long which I do know.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:49 AM   #22
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Marc, there are some areas, such as mine, that you are not required to pull a permit. Just have to do the work in a professional manner, and follow all codes, along with that the homeowner must own the structure more than two years if they wish to perform their own work.

I have been in a couple of homes in my neighborhood, that were "homeowner" electrical work, and also having to deal with my place, it is a wonder why they have/had not caught on fire yet. Wait scratch that, we have had one place that the Kitchen had a grease fire, the other was an electrical fire, due to overheated receptacle in the living room on our street.

The last place was contained to the living room, complete gut and cleanup of the house in the affected area, and the rest of the house. In turn they put in all new windows in the place, updated all the wiring, plumbing and new siding, and roof. Turned out one of the better places on our street, when the company that did it, got done.

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