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Old 05-06-2010, 03:40 PM   #1
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Discussion on breaker rating, stove gauge


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post

#8 TWHN will get you to 50a, might as well just go to 60a
#8 is only good up to 50-amps when used on equipment that is rated above 75 degrees Celsius! You can also start derating it from 50-amps if you are running more than 3 current carrying conductors in a raceway. Most equipment is rated either 40 or 60 degree Celsius! The reason #8 is rated for 50-amps is because the insulation is rated for 75 degrees C but the Bakelite casing on a circuit breaker or an outlet device is only rated 40 C

General rule:
#14 = 15-amp
#12 = 20-amp
#10 = 30-amp
#8 = 40-amp
#6 = 60-amp

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Old 05-06-2010, 06:14 PM   #2
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Discussion on breaker rating, stove gauge


Would you use #8 fused at 50-amps for a 50-amp stove outlet? The Bakelite that makes up the outlet is only rated 40 C! That means the the outlet would burn up before the wire would and the same for most breakers. Pull the breaker out and read the side, most say 40C, some say 60C, very few say 75C. You can however run #8 for a 50-amp circuit and splice a piece of #6 to each end and it is technically ok but I think I would rather just use the #6 all the way.

#8 = 40-amps try using it for 50 in South Florida and you will fail your inspection more often than not.

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Old 05-06-2010, 08:57 PM   #3
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Discussion on breaker rating, stove gauge


Ok my friend I stand corrected on the stove outlet! However you still have to hook the other end up to a breaker and though I am sure you can find me a pretty picture that shows a breaker rated at 75C it is NOT the norm. Most of the panels installed in homes and businesses have breakers rated 40C. Next time you open your panel take a look and see for yourself! If it's rated higher than 40C it's at 60C but I bet you it's not 75C.

Furthermore in an older ITE (especially ITE) or Zinsco or FPE or Murray or Crouse Hinds panel, if you use use #8 on a 50-amp breaker to feed an AC load or a heater load or an instant hot water heater load or any heavy load that's rated for 50-amp circuit your going to burn the busbar on that panel in no time at all! Even the newer Siemens (ITE) breakers (which may now be rated for 60C) won't last long! The breaker can't dissipate the heat as fast as the wire can and overheats, The heat is transferred to the busbar which starts to get distempered and in turn causes the breaker to heat up more and and then you get the call from the customer saying "I smell something burning in my panel" And what do you suppose that smell is? That's right ...it's the Bakelite breaker casing.

But don't take my word for it, there's nothing better than experience!

I probably shouldn't be trying to talk you out of it...more work for me repairing the damage!
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Old 05-06-2010, 09:23 PM   #4
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Discussion on breaker rating, stove gauge


Square D info
Quote:
Terminations
The 10–30 A circuit breakers have pressure plate terminals suitable for single or two-wire terminations.
Copper or aluminum conductors may be used as outlined in Table 2. QO-GFI 15–30 A and QO-AFI circuit breakers have pressure plate terminals suitable for single-wire terminations. These circuit breakers are suitable for use with 60C or 75C conductors.
The QO 35–200 A and all QO-PL and QOT tandem circuit breakers have box-type lugs suitable for single-wire terminations. These circuit breakers are suitable for use with 75C conductors.

Terminations ARE rated at 60/75c
And electricians do not work on my house - unless its the service feed
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