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-   -   Differences in 2xx voltage appliances? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/differences-2xx-voltage-appliances-53182/)

Roy Rowlett 09-17-2009 12:10 PM

Differences in 2xx voltage appliances?
 
I have purchased an appliance that says it uses 236 volts. Can anyone tell me what I should be getting in my house, and what difference it makes if the appliances say "230, 236, 240, or 250 volts"?
I keep seeing different voltages for different devices, but I think I am limited to whatever I get from my electrical panel.
Thanks:huh:

HouseHelper 09-17-2009 12:29 PM

Typical residence in the US has 120/240V service. Some multi-unit condos may have 120/208 service.

joed 09-17-2009 01:09 PM

I would consider all the voltages you listed as the same and use any appliance with them listed on my home 240 volt system. 208 is a different anaimal. It is part of a three phase system

Roy Rowlett 09-17-2009 01:54 PM

208v not for home use?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joed (Post 328865)
I would consider all the voltages you listed as the same and use any appliance with them listed on my home 240 volt system. 208 is a different anaimal. It is part of a three phase system

Are you saying that if I buy a device that uses 208v, it must be on a 3 phase system, and therefore would not work in a typical 2 phase home environment?
Thanks

Code05 09-17-2009 02:16 PM

1. your house is single phase, not double phase.
2. unless you are interested or need to know about 208v and three phase, just forget about it and do not buy anything marked 208v as the only usable supply voltage. Some things are marked 208/230, these are okay.

Thurman 09-17-2009 02:22 PM

Mr. Rowlett, may I ask where you live that you buy an appliance which is rated for 236 volts? For myself, that is very unusual voltage for an appliance. "Code05" gave you a very good answer on this also. Thanks, David

Code05 09-17-2009 02:49 PM

236v was probably just a labeling mistake at the factory. I have seen similar wierd voltages a few times

Roy Rowlett 09-17-2009 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thurman (Post 328883)
Mr. Rowlett, may I ask where you live that you buy an appliance which is rated for 236 volts? For myself, that is very unusual voltage for an appliance. "Code05" gave you a very good answer on this also. Thanks, David

I live in western NC and north central FL.
I am looking at an item on eBay. It is a commercial electric hot plate. I want to use it for canning in my basement in NC. It would take up less room than a standard electric stove with heating coils, and would require the same power. I am assuming if I can use it, it will need a 230v/30 amp circuit like a stove.
My kitchen stove has a glass top, and the canner is too wide for the eye on the stove top, so could break the glass. That is why I am looking at this option. Also, since this would be seasonal, I could put it away during the off season. I could not do that with a second stove.
The description on eBay says it can be set up for either 3 or 1 phase. 208 vs 236v. I don't know why it says 236v vs 230v.
Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:EF:US:1123

Roy Rowlett 09-17-2009 03:00 PM

1 phase vs 3 phase?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Code05 (Post 328881)
1. your house is single phase, not double phase.
2. unless you are interested or need to know about 208v and three phase, just forget about it and do not buy anything marked 208v as the only usable supply voltage. Some things are marked 208/230, these are okay.

Thanks for setting me straight on that. I am not an electrician, and I don't really understand the meaning of that. I know I can probably look this up, but just as an aside:
Isn't it true that the way we get 230v in my house is combining 2 phases of 115v, so that the effective voltage is 230v? I know I get 2 hot leads from the power company at 115 v each, out of phase with each other, and if I use one side, I get 115v. If I use both sides, I get 230v. If the alternating currents of the 2 hot leads are out of phase with each other, the resulting "combining" of those 2 lines yields an effective difference of potential of 230v? Am I missing something?
Or is this just a nomenclature issue? Like the 3 way switch thing - when there are really only 2 switches that control a light, yet it is still called a "3-way". Would it follow that if I have one switch controlling a light, it would be a "2-way"? That makes no sense to me either.

Code05 09-17-2009 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Rowlett (Post 328896)
I live in western NC and north central FL.
I am looking at an item on eBay. It is a commercial electric hot plate. I want to use it for canning in my basement in NC. It would take up less room than a standard electric stove with heating coils, and would require the same power. I am assuming if I can use it, it will need a 230v/30 amp circuit like a stove.
My kitchen stove has a glass top, and the canner is too wide for the eye on the stove top, so could break the glass. That is why I am looking at this option. Also, since this would be seasonal, I could put it away during the off season. I could not do that with a second stove.
The description on eBay says it can be set up for either 3 or 1 phase. 208 vs 236v. I don't know why it says 236v vs 230v.
Here is the link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:EF:US:1123

The cord is 240v 30 amp, which is the old 3 wire plug configuration on a dryer. It will work at your house. 220/230/240 are all the same. 208 is a three phase voltage catagory, but if you usu only two of the "hots" it is single phase. Heating elements work fine on 208 or 240.

Code05 09-17-2009 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Rowlett (Post 328903)
Thanks for setting me straight on that. I am not an electrician, and I don't really understand the meaning of that. I know I can probably look this up, but just as an aside:
Isn't it true that the way we get 230v in my house is combining 2 phases of 115v, so that the effective voltage is 230v? I know I get 2 hot leads from the power company at 115 v each, out of phase with each other, and if I use one side, I get 115v. If I use both sides, I get 230v. If the alternating currents of the 2 hot leads are out of phase with each other, the resulting "combining" of those 2 lines yields an effective difference of potential of 230v? Am I missing something?
Or is this just a nomenclature issue? Like the 3 way switch thing - when there are really only 2 switches that control a light, yet it is still called a "3-way". Would it follow that if I have one switch controlling a light, it would be a "2-way"? That makes no sense to me either.

Your house is Center tapped single phase service or Split phase. I do not type well and it is too long for me to explain, look it up if you want to. Now go buy the range and call me when the pizza is ready.:)

AllanJ 09-17-2009 09:38 PM

The standards for (non-3-phase) household current is 110 to 120 volts and 220-240 volts. I mean, the "236 volt" appliance will work just fine on anywhere from 220 volts to 240 volts.

To a 220-240 volt appliance (often labeled with just one number between 220 and 240), 208 volts is a brown out condition unless the appliance is also rated for 208 volts. There are a few other idiosyncrasies specifically related to 208 volts and those "220-240 volt" appliances that require that you connect the neutral as well to power portions of the appliance that want 110-120 volts. So don't connect up 208 volts unless the appliance is rated for that.

The 240 volt appliances that also use 120 volts (require the neutral) may be labeled 120/240 or 110/220.

spark plug 09-17-2009 10:17 PM

Clarifying Terminology.
 
Code 05 (Poster #10 & 11) You gave an excellent reply to Roy Rowlette (#9) He seems to be perplexed with the terminology of Single Phase and (2-phase Non-existent) 3-Phase. Let me try to put in my Two Cents. The difference between Single Phase and Three Phase has no practical bearing for the consumer. Two "legs" of a system will always be considered to be Single Phase. The difference is in the Voltage. In a single phase system, the voltage will be 120/240. In a Three phase system, it is. 120/208V. Whether you use Two or Three wires. In order not to get too technical (which this forum is not meant for) the explanation will not be given.:yes::no: No matter what.:wink::drink:Don't Drink and Drive, Ever!!!

220/221 09-17-2009 10:22 PM

220/221.......whatever it takes

nap 09-17-2009 10:35 PM

typical residential electrical supply is 120/240. They left the old 110/220 or 115/230 quite a long time ago. There are federal standards that have made the current supply voltage to be the 120/240 +/- 5%.

what an appliance is rated can vary depending on what the manufacturer intended. If an appliance is rated 220 volts, it can be used on a 208 system acceptably as NEMA (national electrical manufacturers association) requires that appliances be able to utilize voltages that are +/- 10% of name plate rating.

a 220 volt rated appliance could be run on voltages that run from 198 to 242.


The appliance you are looking at would be able to be powered on anything from 212.4 to 259.6 volts.

Not sure why they chose that voltage as it does not allow it to be run on any other standard voltage in the US. I would think it is a foreign built appliance. They often list odd voltage on their machines and appliances.

Quote:

spark plug writes:

The difference is in the Voltage. In a single phase system, the voltage will be 120/240. In a Three phase system, it is. 120/208V.
never seen a 120/240 volt 3 phase system? aka high leg delta?

Quote:

allanj writes:

There are a few other idiosyncrasies specifically related to 208 volts and those "220-240 volt" appliances that require that you connect the neutral as well to power portions of the appliance that want 110-120 volts. So don't connect up 208 volts unless the appliance is rated for that.
. If the neutral is required, both the line to neutral and the line to line voltages will be listed. e.g. 120/240 or 120/208


Quote:

spark plug writes:

(2-phase Non-existent)

actually, not non-existent. Very uncommon and very ancient and not typically seen but definately not non-existant.


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