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Old 03-30-2010, 02:13 PM   #16
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This diagram look ok?


Why not just go ahead and use two-gang boxes? One metal for the bx and one plastic on the other end? Then you can just use regular three way switches and have a lot more room in the boxes for your wire.

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Old 03-30-2010, 04:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
what is what? gentleman's clubs?

you really are young, aren't you?

Very funny

I probably will have to use 2-gang boxes. The upstairs box is a single-gang, was hoping to reuse it and not have to put a new one in. I just hope when i put the new box upstairs, I can still pull the bx into it...i doubt there's much slack.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:32 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by secutanudu View Post
Very funny

I probably will have to use 2-gang boxes. The upstairs box is a single-gang, was hoping to reuse it and not have to put a new one in. I just hope when i put the new box upstairs, I can still pull the bx into it...i doubt there's much slack.
Where there is a will there is a way. If it's connected to a box at the moment you should be able to connect it to the cut-in.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:39 PM   #19
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how old is the house....i haven't seen bx with no ground in it for ages.
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:45 PM   #20
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how old is the house....i haven't seen bx with no ground in it for ages.
In USA I have allready ran into older BX cable they can be pain in and the issue with old bonding strap get corrored and never work anymore and also when someone replace it and they never double check the bonding strap the later BX do have bonding strap.

The MC { metal clad } cable is not a issue at all due it have grounding conductor inside the cable { useally green in colour }

What more with old BX cable if you have ground fault you can actally get the BX cable become a heater yeah the restinace on the BX cable itself is pretty werid.

I allready ran into old BX cable in France and it did burnt up pretty good for good 5 meter strech of it so end up replace and put in MC cable and slove the issue there.

Merci, Marc
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:19 AM   #21
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MC cable has a grounding conductor inside. BX never had a grounding conductor.
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Old 03-31-2010, 09:31 AM   #22
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House was built in 1975, no grounding conductor in the BX. I'll try mounting the cut-in box to the end of the BX, if I can't, I'll rip it out (or leave it in the wall) and run romex.

Thanks.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:06 AM   #23
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I just wanted to make sure it was ok that both lights share the one neutral in the 14/3 between the switches, that way the other switches could have 14/2 instead of 14/3.
No too long ago, I also suggested an unusual setup for 3-way switches. But the killer was that I was told the neutral & hot wires have to be run together.

Now if the cable between the 3-way switches was conduit using individual conductors (like THHN wire), then it might be ok to shart the neutral because you could claim the neutral and both hots share the same race-way.

But if you're using 14/3 and 14/2 NM wire, I don't think it is considered that the neutral is getting run with the hots just because the two sets of cable run beside each other.

So from what I understand, the "correct" way would be to NOT share the neutral between the 3-way switches and that you need to change the 14/2 between the upper set of 3-way switches to 14/3.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:13 AM   #24
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One other thing to watch out for is fill counts...

Based on the image you posted, the 1st box (the one on the left) requires a 20 cu.in. the way you have it drawn, and a 22 cu.in. box if you use a pair of 14/3 rather than 14/3+14/2.

But your real problem could be the 2nd box (the one on the right). As drawn, the fill count requires a 24 cu.in. box, and a 26 cu.in. box if you use the pair of 14/3 rather than 14/3+14/2. When it comes to single gang boxes, do they make them that big? (I know 18, 20, and 22 are available, but don't know if 24 and 26 exist).
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:21 AM   #25
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As far as box fill, I'm plannign to ditch the combination 3way/3way single-gang idea and just use a 2-gang box with two normal switches.

Is there a more simple way to wire this that maybe I'm not thinking of? Maybe bringing the power to the lights first?
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:37 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by secutanudu View Post
As far as box fill, I'm plannign to ditch the combination 3way/3way single-gang idea and just use a 2-gang box with two normal switches.

Is there a more simple way to wire this that maybe I'm not thinking of? Maybe bringing the power to the lights first?
The "simple" way (and from what I understand the only "proper" way) is to simply use 14/3 between any pair of 3-way switches.

As for power going to the lights first, keep in mind you MUST switch the hot leg and not the neutral.

But otherwise, if it makes for a shorter run of 14/2, there is nothing wrong with bringing the power to the 2nd box and using the 3-way switches as a switch loop.

For this, you would connect the hot comming into box 2 to the common of both 3-way switches and connect the neutral to the neutral of both lights. The 14/3 between the 3-way switches would have the black and red wires connected to the pair of switched terminals on the 3-ways, and connect the white to the common of the 3-ways in box 1. The white wire becomes your switched hot (so mark both ends of this white wire with black tape to indicate it's a switched hot). Then used the switched hots (the taped white wires) in box 2 as your hots to the lights. For this setup, you would need a double gang box that is at least 34 cu.in. (I think the standard size double gangs are only about 28 cu.in.).
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:01 AM   #27
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Sorry about the messy drawing, did it fast before work today.

I guess this method would work too, is this what you had in mind, Brric?

It would make one box only have 6 conductors (+EGC). The other would have 12.
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:32 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by secutanudu View Post
Sorry about the messy drawing, did it fast before work today.

I guess this method would work too, is this what you had in mind, Brric?

It would make one box only have 6 conductors (+EGC). The other would have 12.
Slightly different in detail from EXACTLY what I described... but functionally equivilent. Only difference is that my description had the white wire in the 14/3 to be the switched hot, yours has the white wire always hot with the common terminals in the box on the right being switched hot.
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:36 AM   #29
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This diagram look ok?


Quote:
Originally Posted by secutanudu View Post
Sorry about the messy drawing, did it fast before work today.

I guess this method would work too, is this what you had in mind, Brric?

It would make one box only have 6 conductors (+EGC). The other would have 12.
That should work ok. We prefer to use the black from the power to the commons.

PS: How do you guys draw those diagrams ??
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Old 04-01-2010, 08:37 AM   #30
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I believe the white wire (recoded to black) is supposed to be the constant hot, and the red/black should be the switched hot.

I do not know if this is in code, or just in practice. I know every time I post a diagram the "wrong" way, someone tells me so, so that's why I did it that way instead. (and actually remembered this time!)

I'll probably do it that way.

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