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-   -   Decommissioning Knob and Tube (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/decommissioning-knob-tube-130659/)

Perry401 01-19-2012 06:36 PM

Decommissioning Knob and Tube
 
Older knob and tube wiring is often abandoned or removed when replaced by new wiring. Locally, housing inspectors have been writing up negative reports (have this inspected by a licensed electrical contractor) if there appears to be any knob and tube wiring in use. This practice has been going on for many years. Now in the last two months I have been made aware of two cases where even when the wires have been removed, the inspection reports indicate that the house "used" to contain knob and tube wiring (based on tube holes, unused knobs, etc) and that a full electrical inspection of every wire in the home is required since any house that ever contained knob and tube wiring is uninsurable without such an inspection. This is because every house that even contained knob and tube is now suspect since the knob and tube is not entirely removed or replacement is done wrong.

This situation makes me ask two questions: First, what is the proper method to remove and decommission knob and tube wiring and

Second, wouldn't a similar warning be appropriate for any home which had what appeared to be home-owner installed or modified wiring? I realize that many home inspectors know very little about wiring, but I have seen some awful examples over the years which didn't even register with these home inspectors.

kbsparky 01-19-2012 06:42 PM

Probably because insurance companies have been "burned" by houses that caught fire the supposedly had the knob-and-tube wiring removed --->

But there was still some concealed that was still active, or live, etc.

Since they have to deal with paying for damages, they are gun-shy these days.

AllanJ 01-19-2012 07:03 PM

After a section of knob and tube wiring is known to have been disconnected at all ends, it is left buried in the wall, or it can be removed as best as possible.

Now that you know that an insurance company might refuse to write a policy, it would make sense to remove as much as the dead K&T as possible, but it is almost impossible to conceal the fact that the K&T used to be there.

An inspector might oblige and open each and every outlet box, shining a flashlight inside to see that every conductor emerged from a Romex cable sheath or a conduit, and use deductive reasoning to conclude that no K&T remains in use.

While a section remains connected while you are doing renovation, any loose ends must be brought into an outlet box with an accessible cover and taped off individually there..

Hardway 01-19-2012 07:09 PM

You have to pull permits and have inspections done. But don't kid your self that because a permit was pull, everything is right. The inspector, Does a quick once over. Permit another form of tax!

Perry401 05-14-2014 09:25 AM

Just ran into a knob and tube house where someone "faked" the connections at outlets, etc. They took the boxes out and left the knob and tube wires, left them in place, then wire-nutted a section of Romex to it (wire nutting the ground to the neutral). This was all done back inside the wall with no box of course. Then a new box and new receptacle made things look "new". I don't know if this was a homeowner who did this (to help sell the house) or a handyman or crooked contractor who charged for a complete rewire job. In any event, I am leaning more and more towards "Once a knob and tube, always a knob and tube." unless I personally know better.

ritelec 05-14-2014 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perry401 (Post 1350437)
Just ran into a knob and tube house where someone "faked" the connections at outlets, etc. They took the boxes out and left the knob and tube wires, left them in place, then wire-nutted a section of Romex to it (wire nutting the ground to the neutral). This was all done back inside the wall with no box of course. Then a new box and new receptacle made things look "new". I don't know if this was a homeowner who did this (to help sell the house) or a handyman or crooked contractor who charged for a complete rewire job. In any event, I am leaning more and more towards "Once a knob and tube, always a knob and tube." unless I personally know better.

WOW !


Finished up rewiring an entire house that was knob and tube.
Wish I had known this trick.

TOTALLY KIDDING !!!

WOW!

Thanks for the post

MTN REMODEL LLC 05-14-2014 09:44 AM

Perry...

Interesting..... What is your location.

Out here, I've not heard of an insurance company even reviewing a HI report.

Was the report ordered/paid by the insurance company, or did the ins company require you submit a report.

How prevalent is that policy accross the different ins companies.

Just curious.....

4just1don 05-14-2014 10:04 PM

Was wondering very same thing. Going to 'attempt' to pull all new wires in an old house.

Not sure if it is true knob and tube but def. the older Romex with the cloth cover and no ground. Where they wanted to go to another light etc they skinned the cloth and 'wrapped' one wire to another and threw a little tape over it,,,,maybe

See new thread for my questions of the day


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