Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-28-2012, 10:54 PM   #16
Member
 
Code05's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Easton MD
Posts: 1,841
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Neither the NEC or the IRC mandates the removal of abandoned power cables or conductors.

Certain cables such as communication and such, yes, but not general wiring.

Code05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2012, 10:58 PM   #17
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 377
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Code05 View Post
Where in Jersey are you? I know a few sparkies there and have never heard of this BS rule. Who is enforcing it and under what rule?
I live in central NJ.

My E. Inspector told me this during my mudroom project (way back in 2006) where I abandoned a 14 awg for a new 12 awg wire (for new refrigerator).

I did not ask under which code, etc., however.
allthumbsdiy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 12:17 AM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Indiana (USA)
Posts: 1,318
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sublime2 View Post
Hell no!!!!
Will open a whole new can of worms!
He won't be looking at just the wires while he's there.
DO NOT follow this suggestion!
Who the hell are you to categorically dismiss my QUESTION? It wasn't a suggestion.

And why do you suggest that there's such horrid violations on a property you know nothing about?
sirsparksalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 12:37 AM   #19
DIY Enthusiast
 
sublime2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,102
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot

Who the hell are you to categorically dismiss my QUESTION? It wasn't a suggestion.

And why do you suggest that there's such horrid violations on a property you know nothing about?
Your QUESTION could in no way help him with his issue.
It would add to his current problem not help it.
Now take that bunch out of your p******.
sublime2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 12:42 AM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Indiana (USA)
Posts: 1,318
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sublime2 View Post
Your QUESTION could in no way help him with his issue.
I hope you understand that that is YOUR opinion, and not something sent down from on High, as you so pompously state.
sirsparksalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 06:12 AM   #21
DIY staff
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kane county,Illinois
Posts: 21,863
Rewards Points: 2,374
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Moderator here----Debates are good and useful----

Arguments are not---so keep it from getting personal as you debate the best course of action for this member----Mike-----
__________________
New members: Adding your location to your profile helps in many ways.--M--
oh'mike is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to oh'mike For This Useful Post:
Code05 (09-29-2012), DangerMouse (09-29-2012), Jim Port (09-29-2012), sublime2 (09-29-2012)
Old 09-29-2012, 06:26 AM   #22
An old Tradesmen
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 25,567
Rewards Points: 2,814
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Morning mike.

Interesting thread.

Sounds like the tenant is up to something. Reporting she feels unsafe so quick. Sounds like a group of people that went through a city near me. Where they would rent a place, pay the first months rent and deposit, then not pay rent again. When the sheriff came to evict them they would cry act 52(no foreign electric load). By PA law, eviction stops at that point, and the tenant can't be evicted, and the landlord is responsible for the tenants electric bill until the foreign electric load is removed, and the electric company verifies it. takes about 6 months.
beenthere is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to beenthere For This Useful Post:
sublime2 (09-29-2012)
Old 09-29-2012, 07:07 AM   #23
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,558
Rewards Points: 2,024
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaSparky View Post
could be a safety hazard, if someone were to tie on to them.
Key words in your statement are COULD and IF. Why would someone tie into dead wires?

By that reasoning the rolls of wire or cable on the shelves at Home Depot are a safety hazard.

Last edited by hammerlane; 09-29-2012 at 07:12 AM.
hammerlane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 08:57 AM   #24
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


The rental house is in PA. I'm from Allentown.
Scooby333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 01:23 PM   #25
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 46
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by sublime2

What? They are dead wires in a unused space!
There's no " saftey hazard". On the OFF chance that someone would " tie into them" is foolish to indicate its a safty hazard.
One of two things is happening here.
Either the tenant knows the electrician and is trying to get him work OR the electrician sees the fear in the tenant and is trying to get work playing off her fear.
At this point I would not even allow him to do ANY work in the house.
Can you explain why? There are numerous rules in the code that are there just in case. They are "safe" but that does not mean to code.

Your explanation could be true but I don't think the tenants fears are unfounded.

If I were to give my honest advice to the op, if the tenant is threatening legal action, call your inspection authority, explain the situation and see if they can come out.
AltaSparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 01:58 PM   #26
DIY Enthusiast
 
sublime2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 1,102
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaSparky

Can you explain why? There are numerous rules in the code that are there just in case. They are "safe" but that does not mean to code.

Your explanation could be true but I don't think the tenants fears are unfounded.

If I were to give my honest advice to the op, if the tenant is threatening legal action, call your inspection authority, explain the situation and see if they can come out.
See Beenthere's post.
I think that is exactly what is happening with OP.
sublime2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 04:18 PM   #27
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 11
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Thank you everyone for the advice. I saw my tenant today to resolve the issue. I know found out why they are giving me such grief about everything. After being there 3 weeks they started to finish completely remolding the attic. They want to turn the space into offices for their business. They started putting new insulation in the rafters and finishing off the rest of the walls with drywall. With me not hooking the power back to the attic ruined their plans for an office.

It now explains why they said the dead wires would still be unsafe.
Scooby333 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 04:26 PM   #28
bbo
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Packerland !!
Posts: 1,016
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


so this is a commercial space now?
bbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 04:36 PM   #29
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 46
Rewards Points: 25
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby333 View Post
Thank you everyone for the advice. I saw my tenant today to resolve the issue. I know found out why they are giving me such grief about everything. After being there 3 weeks they started to finish completely remolding the attic. They want to turn the space into offices for their business. They started putting new insulation in the rafters and finishing off the rest of the walls with drywall. With me not hooking the power back to the attic ruined their plans for an office.

It now explains why they said the dead wires would still be unsafe.
Wait, you allow this as a landlord? My landlord allows no changes at all.

It likely is code that lights and receptacles need to be installed in a finished attic. (if you even allow changes) If the wires were dead why wouldnt they just remove them, I'm more confused as to why this is an issue.

Quote:
Key words in your statement are COULD and IF. Why would someone tie into dead wires?

By that reasoning the rolls of wire or cable on the shelves at Home Depot are a safety hazard.
In canada this could be a violation of CEC 12-938. CEC and NEC are generally pretty similar, so it wouldn't be a crazy idea that this would not be a rule in the US as well. Also, if installed in plenum it is a violation of fire code here. My point being what the electrician is saying isn't completely crazy.

Why would someone tie in to dead wires? I've seen professional electricians do it many times. If there are spare wires it is handy to use them. As long as they are made safe I have no issue with spare wires. Ive seen electricians make mistakes and end up with a spark show using dead wires in the past, I wouldn't think the average homeowner will be using a meter to identify what goes where. A wire on a spool is far different then one installed in a building.
AltaSparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2012, 05:50 PM   #30
Member
 
Oso954's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Northern Calif.
Posts: 1,643
Rewards Points: 1,160
Default

Are Dead wires allowed or unsafe?


The problem has gone past the electrical code. Converting an attic space into living/working space is building code. Sometimes it might be just insulation and drywall. Other times substantial structural modifications need to be made.

Conversions that are not done correctly can result in damage to the space below. It maybe a substantial cost to repair them.

Also, how does undocumented space affect the value of the property. In my state you cannot count it as square footage. It is "bonus space". If it doesn't look professional, it can detract from the property value.

Oso954 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Two black wires and two white wires in a ceiling mshaw11 Electrical 6 07-11-2012 09:57 PM
need help wiring five wires to capacitor DavidAnderson HVAC 9 06-22-2012 06:49 PM
Ceiling Fan installation, 3 sets of wires in ceiling southnam Electrical 3 09-13-2010 03:00 PM
12v wires run with 120v yes, no!? walt1122 Electrical 2 02-06-2010 05:03 PM
Help Help richie02 Electrical 7 06-17-2008 08:42 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.