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Old 06-18-2009, 04:53 PM   #1
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Cutler Hammer fits


I read that a Cutler Hammer GFCI breaker will fit in a Challenger breaker box hope that's true because I only knew about Seimens or Challenger. I have a Challenger box and installed a 30 Amp GFCI for my hot tub later on. The breaker is now tripping from 1 to 3 times a day. It always resets, sometimes for many hours even for a couple of days on some occasions. Had this problem a few years ago and it was solved by the power co. replacing a few regulators in the line. Never knew that a line surge could cause a GFCI to trip.
Just wondering if anyone knows about the Cutler Hammer fitting in the Challenger box.
Thanks

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Old 06-18-2009, 05:57 PM   #2
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Cutler Hammer fits


Quote:
Originally Posted by smokenguns View Post
I read that a Cutler Hammer GFCI breaker will fit in a Challenger breaker box hope that's true because I only knew about Seimens or Challenger. I have a Challenger box and installed a 30 Amp GFCI for my hot tub later on. The breaker is now tripping from 1 to 3 times a day. It always resets, sometimes for many hours even for a couple of days on some occasions. Had this problem a few years ago and it was solved by the power co. replacing a few regulators in the line. Never knew that a line surge could cause a GFCI to trip.
Just wondering if anyone knows about the Cutler Hammer fitting in the Challenger box.
Thanks
Let me test my understanding
  • Now you have a Siemens GFCI in a Chalenger Box
  • The Siemens is nuisance tripping
  • The Hot tub will be installed later on
  • You think a Cutler hammer GFCI 30 Amp breaker may solve the tripping problem
Is this correct?

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Old 06-18-2009, 06:07 PM   #3
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Cutler Hammer fits


Not sure on Challenger dont have a copy of the paperwork on me supply shop closed now, Must be a Cutler Hammer Classified Breaker.Has paper work with it that list all the breakers.
The final decision on acceptance of Classified circuit breakers, as with any issue, rests with the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ).
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:15 PM   #4
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Cutler Hammer fits


Sorry about the wording of my question. The breaker and tub have been in use for about 6 years.
The breaker has begun to as you say nuisance tripping for a while.
One idea that was suggested to me was a new breaker. I cannot find any challenger 30 A gfci breakers in town. at the time of install all that I could find that the electrical supply house had that would fit my box was seimens.
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Old 06-18-2009, 06:52 PM   #5
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Cutler Hammer fits


A Cutler-Hammer BR series breaker will work in this panel, but the breaker is not the problem. You have a problem with the hot tub, either with the pump or the heater (most likely).
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:01 PM   #6
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wouldn't it seem if it was in the heater or the motor, the gfci wouldn't reset or would trip whenever the heater or motor ran for a period?
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:23 PM   #7
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Cutler Hammer fits


The breaker itself may be defective.Mechanical things fail in time. there may be a bad ground connection there. Check for frayed wires, loose connections, or wires cross touching. If you are uncomfortable with doing this, call your local electrician to check the exact cause.
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Old 06-18-2009, 07:48 PM   #8
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Cutler Hammer fits


Thnx. 300zx, Checked the wires and connections on both ends seem ok. thought the next step if there are no spikes would be to install a new gfci.
I mention the spikes RE: original post. Heater and motors do not seem to be drawing more current than they should. Mainly I needed to know about the CH breaker fitting in the Challenger box in case I need a new breaker. There dosent seem to be any Ch. or Seimens in town.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:27 PM   #9
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The Cutler Hammer BR will fit but the Siemans Qp is listed as a replacement.
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Old 06-18-2009, 08:37 PM   #10
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Thank you for the info.
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Old 06-18-2009, 10:03 PM   #11
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Cutler Hammer fits


BEFORE you waste any money replacing that breaker, try disconnecting the heater element first. If the nuisance tripping continues, then try a new breaker. If it stops tripping, then you will have to replace the heater element.
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Old 06-19-2009, 07:14 AM   #12
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Cutler Hammer fits


Cutler-Hammer bought the Westinghouse line which included Challenger. A Cutler-Hammer BR circuit breaker is the replacement for Westinghouse, Bryant (BR) circuit breakers, and Challenger C breakers.
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Old 06-19-2009, 02:50 PM   #13
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Thanks to both kbsparky and househelper for your info. I will disconnect the heater and try it.
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Old 06-19-2009, 03:49 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
BEFORE you waste any money replacing that breaker,.......
I'm with kb. The failed GFCI breakers that I have seen just failed to reset, even when the load was completely removed. I am not aware of any GFCI Breakers that somehow became more sensitive, and tripped at less leakage than the original set point.

In the real world GFCI feed circuits that have some leakage current. That leakage may be very small and just due to line leakage or more so, the a total from the UL permitted leakage of 0.5MA per device. That is only 1/10 of the permissible but it is cumulative to the total number of UL devices on the circuit. The GFCI is dumb, all it knows is that when the total leakage >5mA it will trip. The GFCI cannot differentiate between which of the loads that it sees are <5mA and which is the load that will make it trip.

When there is nuisance tripping on a GFCI remember it's the total current. GFCI breakers are often connected to many misc. loads that are not associated with loads that require GFCI protection Examples of this include lighting and receptacles not in GFCI areas or even just very long circuit runs (e.g.>100')

I would trip the GFCI breaker in question and make a list of all affected loads, lights, and receptacles. Any of these that do not require GFCI protection should be on a non-GFCI breaker. If list has more than one load or if there is a long run between the GFCI Breaker & the load, I would substitute a std Breaker for the GFCI and Install a GFCI near the Hot Tub to feed the Hot Tub components that require GFCI protection.

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Last edited by PaliBob; 06-19-2009 at 07:35 PM. Reason: sp
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