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Old 05-14-2011, 12:58 PM   #1
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Critique my Sub Panel


I have finished the installation of a new sub panel and am getting ready to call for my inspection. Before I do I hope some of you professionals would review what I have done and help me fix any faults before the inspector finds it. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

The new sub panel is located in my attached garage at the other end of the house from my 200 amp main panel. I freed up space in my full panel by removing the water heater circuit and re-wiring it to my new sub. I installed a 60 amp 2 pole breaker for the sub and used about 75’ of AL SER 4-4-4-6 cable through my attic to get to the sub. The sub panel is a GE 100 amp main breaker panel (package deal from a big box- was the cheapest way to go). Used 1.25 “ Sch 40 conduit to bring the feeder down from the attic. Installed 2” Sch 40 back up to attic and down to the crawl space to bring branch circuits into the panel.

Here is the panel showing the conduit feeds:



And the panel with the cover in place:



Grounds and neutrals are separate in the panel; connected the green ground screw from the ground bar to the case of the panel. Although all the connections of the AL SER cable are rated CU/Al, I used no-ox compound on all the feeder connections.

Here is the inside of the panel:

2 pole breaker in lowest position on right side (without connections) is for my irrigation pump which I have not moved to this panel yet.



I have broad shoulders, let me have it

Once I get the go head from the inspector, phase 2 will be to redo the feeders to my out buildings.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:16 PM   #2
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Critique my Sub Panel


It's hard to tell... Are the grounds grounded?
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:19 PM   #3
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Critique my Sub Panel


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Originally Posted by Clutchcargo View Post
It's hard to tell... Are the grounds grounded?
See that nice aluminum grounding conductor from the SER feeder?
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:21 PM   #4
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Critique my Sub Panel


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It's hard to tell... Are the grounds grounded?

Yes all the ground wires are connected to the ground bar.
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Old 05-14-2011, 02:27 PM   #5
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Critique my Sub Panel


what he means is ground buss bonded to panel.looks like bond screw is there.
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Old 05-14-2011, 02:46 PM   #6
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what he means is ground buss bonded to panel.looks like bond screw is there.
Yes the green ground screw is connected thru the ground bar to the case of the panel.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:11 PM   #7
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Critique my Sub Panel


The only thing that I can come up with is...
Is it mounted plumb on the wall?
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:36 PM   #8
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Critique my Sub Panel


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Originally Posted by Clutchcargo View Post
The only thing that I can come up with is...
Is it mounted plumb on the wall?
Yes it plumb, I think it is the camera angle in the first picture that makes it look askew.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:27 PM   #9
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Critique my Sub Panel


I'm not specifically familiar with GE main breaker panels, but often in main breaker panels, the right (neutral) and left (ground)bars are tied together with a jumper. Then you bond them to the panel housing using the bonding screw or jumper.

If they are tied together, you will need to remove the grounds from the left hand bar and add a separate ground bar to isolate the grounds and neutrals as required in a sub-panel.
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:42 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jupe Blue View Post
I'm not specifically familiar with GE main breaker panels, but often in main breaker panels, the right (neutral) and left (ground)bars are tied together with a jumper. Then you bond them to the panel housing using the bonding screw or jumper.

If they are tied together, you will need to remove the grounds from the left hand bar and add a separate ground bar to isolate the grounds and neutrals as required in a sub-panel.
The panel came with a bar across the bottom of the panel that tied the neutral and the ground bars together. Per the manufacturer's info sheet, I removed that bar and grounded the ground bar to the case with the green ground screw. The neutral bar is isolated from the ground and from the case.
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Old 05-14-2011, 07:14 PM   #11
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Critique my Sub Panel


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjniles View Post
I have finished the installation of a new sub panel and am getting ready to call for my inspection. Before I do I hope some of you professionals would review what I have done and help me fix any faults before the inspector finds it. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

The new sub panel is located in my attached garage at the other end of the house from my 200 amp main panel. I freed up space in my full panel by removing the water heater circuit and re-wiring it to my new sub. I installed a 60 amp 2 pole breaker for the sub and used about 75’ of AL SER 4-4-4-6 cable through my attic to get to the sub. The sub panel is a GE 100 amp main breaker panel (package deal from a big box- was the cheapest way to go). Used 1.25 “ Sch 40 conduit to bring the feeder down from the attic. Installed 2” Sch 40 back up to attic and down to the crawl space to bring branch circuits into the panel.
Is the water heater in this sub? How many amps does your water heater draw? That may use of a significant portion of the feeders capacity.

In the garage, then they could require sch 80, especially on the lower portion of conduit.
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:49 AM   #12
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Critique my Sub Panel


That look good there.

Just make sure you make a note on the tub say no twinners on the GE panels due that panel will not take the half inchers so just kinda to remind someone in future if they ever have to find a extra breaker for some reason and my thumb of rules I always leave une et duex spare breakers.

As far for the remarked white conductor I will suggest to go all the way up to the point where the NM cable skin is at the conduit location which it is my standard pratice to do that { half of my time used sharpié ou electrique tape }

Jupe Bleu.,

I know GE panels and most of the Seimens panels you can able get the netural et grounding bussbar seperated very easy on that.
As rjniles did with that layout that is correct.

For the conduit comming from below typically I used shed 80 PVC unless it is inside the wall cavity then I can downsize to shed 40 unless the local code say something diffrent.

Jamie ., IIRC he did mention standard water heater size so that is correct but the key issue is the sub feeder breaker size at the main breaker that may affect the whole thing IIRC he say something either 60 or 90 amp breaker. { I will let him post correct answer on it }

And final part you should done is take a indentifty flag or marker or use left over NM skin and mark it down as well so when you have to take the cover off you don't have to go crazy to find out which breaker and conductor it goes in case some reason if the breaker fling off { I have see it happend from time to time }

Merci,
Marc
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:41 AM   #13
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Critique my Sub Panel


Job looks nice, but since you asked for a critique...here's mine.


Flush cover on a surface mounted panel, not an issue, just a notation.

Single wire on a 2-pole breaker, will probably pass but why?

2" sleeve to attic with multiple romex (did you derate) this will fail where I am.

2" unused conduit to under house, is it sealed? and if you are planning on running multiple romex' they will also have to be derated. Will probably pass for now if sealed.

Identification of reassigned wiring on the 2-pole breaker in top right of panel (white taped black) I would taped it for its entire length in the panel.

Can't tell by the pics, does the amperage of the breakers match the ampacity of the wiring connected?

Good luck!
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:57 AM   #14
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Critique my Sub Panel


Thanks to all who replied. I will try to respond to issues: (My answers in red)


Is the water heater in this sub? How many amps does your water heater draw? That may use of a significant portion of the feeders capacity.

30 amp to water heater. Yes that is 1/2 of the 60 amp capacity but the rest of the loads are light. When the inspector comes I will ask if I can consider the feeder a service feeder instead of a branch circuit. If a service feeder I can increase the feeder supply breaker.

In the garage, then they could require sch 80, especially on the lower portion of conduit.

You can not tell from the photo but this section of the garage is a 8" step above the parking area. No way for a car to get at it.


I will continue the remarking of the white wire all the way back to the cable sheath.

Marc,
And final part you should done is take a identify flag or marker or use left over NM skin and mark it down as well so when you have to take the cover off you don't have to go crazy to find out which breaker and conductor it goes in case some reason if the breaker fling off { I have see it happend from time to time }

I don't understand what you are suggesting here.

Single wire on a 2-pole breaker, will probably pass but why?

This is the feed to an outbuilding that I will upgrade in the future to a MWBC. Bought the breaker now and reserved space. If the inspector objects I will install a single pole and plug the hole in the cover.


I will plug the unused conduit to the crawl space. All those cables going up in the conduit are 10-2 on 20 amp breakers except the water heater which is 4500 watts (19 amps). WH is on 10-2 with a 30 amp breaker

The ameracity of the wire exceeds the breaker in all cases.

Thanks again to all. I will call the inspector tommorrow. I will post my results; Good or Bad

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Old 05-15-2011, 01:06 PM   #15
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Critique my Sub Panel


I don't think you will be able to call your main feed a service feeder. Your service feeder is your main line from your meter.

What you have there is a MWBC, but could be considered a feeder by some.
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