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Old 10-26-2012, 08:10 PM   #1
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crappy change over job


Who ever changed out this did a crappy job,im still unsure where it links up.They had converted it from a 50 amp reg(electric) stove to gas and linked 3 20 amp outlets -12 gauge- and a light in on 50 amp .then 2 15 amp breakers -lighting- below it.Stove(gas now) must be on its own also.I guess ill have t devote it to stove only and change out 50 to 20as long as wire size is 12? Wanted to have over stove microwave on it also -same outlet.Any info is appreciated
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Old 10-26-2012, 08:27 PM   #2
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crappy change over job


Is that also aluminum wiring?

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:26 PM   #3
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crappy change over job


yep and hot!

do they pigtail off these to get to outlet also ?
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Old 10-26-2012, 09:47 PM   #4
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crappy change over job


I never knew you could turn 2 single poles into a double just by putting a NAIL through the breaker arm!
Lol.
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:45 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joecaption View Post
Is that also aluminum wiring?
Yeah, it's SEU cable. What's wrong with that?
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Old 10-27-2012, 07:51 AM   #6
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crappy change over job


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Originally Posted by sublime2
I never knew you could turn 2 single poles into a double just by putting a NAIL through the breaker arm!
Lol.
When the handle tie rule came into affect on mwbc's you couldnt find handle ties for every manufacturer. I had an inspector tell me to just put a nail through them to pass.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:50 PM   #7
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crappy change over job


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Originally Posted by sublime2 View Post
I never knew you could turn 2 single poles into a double just by putting a NAIL through the breaker arm!
Lol.
A double pole breaker is not the same as two single poles with a handle tie, though. Double pole breakers have an internal common-trip mechanism so if one side trips the other side does, too. Handle ties are allowed for MWBC's with no 240V loads, but any 240V loads require a double pole breaker. Most inspectors require UL listed handle ties, but it is technically at their discretion whether to allow a nail or not. I've seen it inspected and approved.
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Old 10-27-2012, 06:56 PM   #8
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crappy change over job


Whew just when you think you have seen the worst--old style wire #6 linked to smaller 12 copper-linked -all off that that 50amp with 1 light and 3 outlets too..and ground was used with neutral.even open wire set aside...whew will have to replace with a 20 amp breaker and run new 12 wire to a new 20 amp or use a Al/Cu #6 split bolt(made to join the different type wiring) maybe?what a mess.
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:47 AM   #9
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crappy change over job


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Originally Posted by mpoulton View Post
Handle ties are allowed for MWBC's with no 240V loads, but any 240V loads require a double pole breaker.
Incorrect.

210.4(C) Line-to-Neutral Loads. Multiwire branch circuits
shall supply only line-to-neutral loads.
Exception No. 1: A multiwire branch circuit that supplies
only one utilization equipment.
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Old 10-28-2012, 02:52 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Code05 View Post
Incorrect.

210.4(C) Line-to-Neutral Loads. Multiwire branch circuits
shall supply only line-to-neutral loads.
Exception No. 1: A multiwire branch circuit that supplies
only one utilization equipment.
That provision allows a MWBC to supply a 240V load under that circumstance (e.g. a 120/240V dryer or stove), but it does not override the requirement in 240.15(B) that the OCPD open all poles automatically:

(B) Circuit Breaker as Overcurrent Device. Circuit
breakers shall open all ungrounded conductors of the circuit
both manually and automatically unless otherwise permitted
in 240.15(B)(1), (B)(2), (B)(3), and (B)(4).

Paragraph 1 under that creates an exception allowing handle ties for MWBC's that supply no 2-pole loads:

(1) Multiwire Branch Circuits. Individual single-pole circuit
breakers, with identified handle ties, shall be permitted
as the protection for each ungrounded conductor of multiwire
branch circuits that serve only single-phase line-to neutral
loads.

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