Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-07-2010, 06:43 PM   #1
DIY Apprentice
 
tripflex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 110
Share |
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Alright so i'm helping a friend out who gutted a house and we're rewiring it. I was in the business but that was 5+ years ago. I remember how to cut in switches, panels, all that good stuff but there are a couple things i can't remember or think are right but i want to be 100% positive.

So i came here.

Anyways, here are the questions, i will post pictures for references below all the questions. This will be inspected and we were told only had to be up to date with the 2008 NEC.


1.) What height should i put the dryer outlet at? I'm pretty sure there is no "specific" height, but there has to be some kind of "standard" ... from what i remember i think we put them at like 36" or something like that.

2.) What height should i put the washer outlet at? I believe this is the same thing as the dryer but for some reason i think i remember putting it at switch height? 12-2 right? I believe the laundry room has to be its own 20 amp circuit, can i just run it off that circuit because i will only have 2 lights and an outlet on it?

3.) What height should i put the stub out for the microwave/hood? Does it just depends on the type of cabinets or is there a "standard" height?

4.) Can we still just stub out a wire for florescent lights? Like without using a box?

5.) Does there have to be furing strips at the top so i can put a nail plate over the wire?



6.) Should this panel be bonded?

Here's how we figured the inside & outside panel should be wired. We have a meter can outside (panel and can are back to back), here's a picture:



And here's the panel inside:



Now we decided that the middle lug on the meter can was for the ground wire because the lug for the ground wire going to the ground rods is attached to it. So we only ran 3 wires (2 hot and a ground) between the panels.

On the inside the 2 hot will go to the main breaker, ground will go to one of the bars. Should i keep the bars bonded together?

We assumed that we would use the ground on one side and neutral on the other. Should we break the connection between the two bars or should we keep them bonded together? What about the lug to connect the panel to the bars, should we connect that?



Thanks everyone for your time reading this and any help is greatly appreciated. This was a termite infested house that had to be gutted and everything basically redone, so we're trying to keep it as cheap as possible.

Hence the reason me and the owner are doing it.


Thanks guys!!!!


Oh one more question, the ground wire, does it have to be shielded going down the wall to the ground bars? I only do work for FDOT now and all our ground wires, or any wire for that matter has to be in conduit.

__________________
"How else am i supposed to build my tool collection and owe home depot lots of money? That's why I DIY"
2,200 SQ ft 3/2 Lake house with in-ground pool: http://picasaweb.google.com/tripflex
Help us help you by posting pictures with your question!

Last edited by tripflex; 06-07-2010 at 06:45 PM.
tripflex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 07:14 PM   #2
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,845
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Please tell me those are NOT individual conductors under that box connector entering the meter socket. If not, more of the SEU cable should entering with at least 1/4" of the sheathing inside the socket.

brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 07:30 PM   #3
DIY Apprentice
 
tripflex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 110
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Quote:
Originally Posted by brric View Post
Please tell me those are NOT individual conductors under that box connector entering the meter socket. If not, more of the SEU cable should entering with at least 1/4" of the sheathing inside the socket.
Well I guess the owner purchased it with 3 conductors and a ground, should I get him to buy 2 conductor with ground and make sure 1/4" of the sheathing into the can and panel? What about going to the weatherhead can that be just the wires?
__________________
"How else am i supposed to build my tool collection and owe home depot lots of money? That's why I DIY"
2,200 SQ ft 3/2 Lake house with in-ground pool: http://picasaweb.google.com/tripflex
Help us help you by posting pictures with your question!
tripflex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 07:38 PM   #4
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,845
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Quote:
Originally Posted by tripflex View Post
Well I guess the owner purchased it with 3 conductors and a ground, should I get him to buy 2 conductor with ground and make sure 1/4" of the sheathing into the can and panel? What about going to the weatherhead can that be just the wires?
Is it three individual conductors or is it a cable assembly?
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 09:10 PM   #5
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,529
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


I thought you were over your head in the other thread, but this one confirms it. Tell your friend to hire someone with the proper experience and licensing. It will be cheaper in the long run.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2010, 11:24 PM   #6
DIY Apprentice
 
tripflex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 110
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post


Sure, and we get paid big bucks for helping here too.
I'm not making any money off this i'm trying to help a friend who's house was ruined by termites. It's good to see you guys think this is funny.

I ONLY do commercial and industrial work anymore i don't touch residential i figured someone on here would be nice enough to help but obviously that's not true. All i know is what i remember from like 5-6 years ago and most of that got forgotten when i learned how much different industrial is from residential.
__________________
"How else am i supposed to build my tool collection and owe home depot lots of money? That's why I DIY"
2,200 SQ ft 3/2 Lake house with in-ground pool: http://picasaweb.google.com/tripflex
Help us help you by posting pictures with your question!

Last edited by Scuba_Dave; 06-08-2010 at 08:56 AM. Reason: Name calling - avoid it from now on
tripflex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 01:33 AM   #7
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


I'm a commercial/industrial electrician myself but I know the answers to your questions. Don't blame your ignorance on not remembering residential specific installations.


Quote:
Now we decided that the middle lug on the meter can was for the ground wire because the lug for the ground wire going to the ground rods is attached to it. So we only ran 3 wires (2 hot and a ground) between the panels.
this one point in particular is not just a residential item. If you think the middle lug is for a ground wire, it shows you have no clue.

I like the fact that "we" decided the center lug was for anything. It was built a specific way and the placement of the conductors was decided before you ever touched the thing.

Quote:
6.) Should this panel be bonded?
that question should never have to be asked by an actual electrician

Quote:
On the inside the 2 hot will go to the main breaker,
where the hell is your main breaker. What happened to the rest of the panel guts that come installed in the panel?

Quote:
? What about going to the weatherhead can that be just the wires?
and that's another one that is not specific to residential so you should not have to be asking that if you are a commercial/industrial eletrician


Quote:
I ONLY do commercial and industrial work anymore i don't touch residential i figured someone on here would be nice enough to help but obviously that's not true.
we're nice enough to help but we also are smart enough to know when somebody is BS'ing us.
nobody here wants to help somebody burn down a building or kill themselves or somebody else.

You're in over your head.






brric: that cable between the meter base and the panel is triplex for an overhead service. notice how the neutral is formed from the manufacturer and the obvious that you noted; there is no outer covering. It is not SE cable.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to nap For This Useful Post:
Jim Port (06-08-2010), sparks1up (06-08-2010)
Old 06-08-2010, 05:41 AM   #8
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,845
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
I'm a commercial/industrial electrician myself but I know the answers to your questions. Don't blame your ignorance on not remembering residential specific installations.


this one point in particular is not just a residential item. If you think the middle lug is for a ground wire, it shows you have no clue.

I like the fact that "we" decided the center lug was for anything. It was built a specific way and the placement of the conductors was decided before you ever touched the thing.

that question should never have to be asked by an actual electrician

where the hell is your main breaker. What happened to the rest of the panel guts that come installed in the panel?

and that's another one that is not specific to residential so you should not have to be asking that if you are a commercial/industrial eletrician


we're nice enough to help but we also are smart enough to know when somebody is BS'ing us.
nobody here wants to help somebody burn down a building or kill themselves or somebody else.

You're in over your head.






brric: that cable between the meter base and the panel is triplex for an overhead service. notice how the neutral is formed from the manufacturer and the obvious that you noted; there is no outer covering. It is not SE cable.
Could be. I've never seen triplex with a red stripe though.
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 06:14 AM   #9
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,810
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


That is SER cable that for some strange reason the neutral was cut off and the sheathing cut back way too far. That is not triplex or URD.
He needs SEU cable.

I'm glad this guy is saving so much money because he will need it to replace all the material he got that was wrong.

tripflex, you need to take a big step back and assess this situation. You are making every lame excuse for not knowing this, when you really should. I do mainly residential these days, but I did quite a bit of commercial/industrial 10+ years ago. I can still run ANY conduit you throw at me and wire up pretty much any motor controls, etc.

Sorry buddy, but you have no idea what you are doing and your friend has less.
DO NOT try and B-S us into thinking you were some well rounded electrician 5 years ago and forgot most of it. You are trying to B-S the B-S'ers, and your bluff was called. Live with it and move on with your life.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Speedy Petey For This Useful Post:
Jim Port (06-08-2010), sparks1up (06-08-2010)
Old 06-08-2010, 08:38 AM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


This site is here to assist people
I think enough people have suggested the OP is in over his head
Triplex...there are enough issues with this you may want to have someone with more experience work on this

I'm just a homeowner who has worked on my own 2 houses
Never connected a meter, had to hire someone here
But even I questioned 2 hots & a bare ground....maybe that meets code, but how does the neutral get to the panel ?
And a breaker box without a main breaker ?

My meter to Main has small conduit & individual wires...all insulated
2 Hots & a neutral....how can a neutral be bare ?

Dryer outlet & washing machine outlet are installed at whatever height is needed
Same with the microwave
My washer & dryer are raised almost 12" off the floor
So mine are higher then maybe normal

The link to NEC 2008 is in my signature
I'd suggest reading the 1st 3 "chapters"

Laundry requires dedicated 20a - yes 12-2

I've never installed any overhead light without a box

Furring strips at the top of what ? Basement , attic, garage ?
What are you doing ?
My understanding is wire can't be left so that it could be used as a clothesline
Not sure on specifics

Main panel (1st disonnect ?) neutral & grounds are bonded together
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Scuba_Dave For This Useful Post:
tripflex (06-08-2010)
Old 06-08-2010, 09:27 AM   #11
DIY Apprentice
 
tripflex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 110
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Yes i figure now i am in over my head but there's nothing i can do about it now. And YES i did work for an electrical company 5 years ago and i did run a crew with them. It was a small 3 crew company so say all you guys want i know what i did and who i worked for. I'm not going to waste my time copying my W2 just to prove to you that i did. I'm not an "electrician" by trade, i said the only "work" i do is industrial/commercial. I didn't say i was a commercial or industrial electrician. I work for a company that works for FDOT, we build DMS structures, CCTV cameras on the highways and traffic signals. WHICH includes a lot of electrical work. Especially when you have 100 miles of cameras and a vds every half a mile.

The cable was SER not triplex or anything else. The main breaker is not in the panel because im not going to put it in until i cut the panel in. The company i used to work for always installed the same equipment, a meter main combo outside and a panel inside. I tried not having to do all that being as though they were going to be back to back. And no this is the only problem im having is with the panel, the rest of the house has been wired correctly, and i know this because i had an old colleague who is still an electrician working with us. Should have waited for him to get back in town instead of coming on here to ask for what i thought would be help.

I'm not trying to "BS" anybody...what am i going to BS you about? That i was some great electrician? I never said that. I knew enough to wire about 50-100 houses with someone working under me. It's been a long time and from certain things i smoke my memory seems to remember only what it wants to. It's good to see you guys say you want to help but you don't want me to burn down a building. Wouldn't helping me get it wired correctly avoid that? Running home runs, wiring switches, cutting in outlets, all that is easy and doesn't take much work. I'm trying to make sure i have the meter and panel wired and installed correctly.

Forgive me if i'm wrong but isn't this A DO IT YOURSELF FORUM! So stop bashing someone if they are trying to do it themselves.

Scuba thanks for the input you've always been very helpful!
__________________
"How else am i supposed to build my tool collection and owe home depot lots of money? That's why I DIY"
2,200 SQ ft 3/2 Lake house with in-ground pool: http://picasaweb.google.com/tripflex
Help us help you by posting pictures with your question!
tripflex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 09:39 AM   #12
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,845
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
This site is here to assist people
I think enough people have suggested the OP is in over his head
Triplex...there are enough issues with this you may want to have someone with more experience work on this

I'm just a homeowner who has worked on my own 2 houses
Never connected a meter, had to hire someone here
But even I questioned 2 hots & a bare ground....maybe that meets code, but how does the neutral get to the panel ?
And a breaker box without a main breaker ?

My meter to Main has small conduit & individual wires...all insulated
2 Hots & a neutral....how can a neutral be bare ?

Dryer outlet & washing machine outlet are installed at whatever height is needed
Same with the microwave
My washer & dryer are raised almost 12" off the floor
So mine are higher then maybe normal

The link to NEC 2008 is in my signature
I'd suggest reading the 1st 3 "chapters"

Laundry requires dedicated 20a - yes 12-2

I've never installed any overhead light without a box

Furring strips at the top of what ? Basement , attic, garage ?
What are you doing ?
My understanding is wire can't be left so that it could be used as a clothesline
Not sure on specifics

Main panel (1st disonnect ?) neutral & grounds are bonded together
If one uses SE cable the neutral is always bare.
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 10:07 AM   #13
DIY Apprentice
 
tripflex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 110
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Here's the way i'm going to wire it and see what the inspector says, if you have any constructive criticism or any suggestions, please reply. If you're going to just bash me please don't waste you energy on posting a reply.


From the weather head down i will run the SER cable without the sheathing (2 hots and 1 bare)

I will connect that bare wire to the middle lug and the 2 hots to the obvious spot. (Scuba, where we are at they consider the meter the "first" disconnect, so the ground ang neutral will be bonded in the meter can but not the main panel)

I will connect the ground wire going to the two ground rods to the lug next to the lug the bare wire is connected to and run it through the pipe to the ground bar.

From there i will install PVC conduit between the meter can and the panel on the other side. I will strip the outer sheathing from the SER cable and run the 2 hots and the black w/ white stripe cable between the meter can and panel (inside the pvc)

Inside the meter can i will connect the black with white wire to the lug the bare wire going to the weatherhead is conected. That white wire will run into the panel on the other side. I will connect that white wire to the neutral bar in the inside panel and break the bond between the neutral bar and the bar on the other side. The "bar on the other side" will be the ground bar.

The SER is 2/0 aluminum
__________________
"How else am i supposed to build my tool collection and owe home depot lots of money? That's why I DIY"
2,200 SQ ft 3/2 Lake house with in-ground pool: http://picasaweb.google.com/tripflex
Help us help you by posting pictures with your question!

Last edited by tripflex; 06-08-2010 at 10:13 AM.
tripflex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 10:19 AM   #14
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 7,529
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Two problems, 1, there is no need for SER to the weatherhead, 2, you cannot strip the jacket off of cable assemblies to use them in conduit.

Whether the 2/0 AL is big enough depends on the size of the service.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2010, 10:24 AM   #15
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,845
Default

Couple simple residential 2008 questions...


Most inspectors will not approve unsheathed SER conductors in pipe. 2/0 conductors in SER is only rated for 150 amps. The neutral/ground connection should be made in the panel. Most utilities, not all, will not allow the ground wire in the meter can. You haven't indicated the service size. You will need a ground wire from the panel to the ground rods, #6 required by NEC, locally may be required to be larger. Also need ground wire from panel to water pipe entering house if it is metallic, sized according to service size. You need not detach the connection of the busses in the panel and the panel can should be bonded to them.

You do not need SER from the weatherhead. You need SE cable, two insulated conductors and the braid which is used for the neutral.

You will have only three conductors from the meter socket to the panel.


Last edited by brric; 06-08-2010 at 10:28 AM.
brric is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Couple of questions... canadaclub PC Repairs & Upgrades 5 08-01-2008 06:22 PM
couple questions about installing phone jacks joeyboy Electrical 31 10-09-2007 02:26 PM
couple questions about painting on different surfaces joeyboy Painting 3 08-19-2007 02:33 PM
Replacing My Furnace, few simple questions compression HVAC 10 02-03-2007 05:00 PM
Simple Bath Floor Questions Riddler Flooring 2 06-27-2006 10:41 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.