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Old 03-08-2010, 11:38 AM   #1
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Couple questions regarding Electrical Codes


Hello,
Starting to do my electrical on the remodel. Couple of quick questions. Does anyone know if you can put recessed lighting in a closet? Someone told me that you could not, it wasnt code. Also, I am curious if there is anything code related or guidelines I must follow when installing telephone/cat5 and coax cable for bedrooms. (distance from elec, number of jacks per room, etc) I havent been able to find anything. When running the coax do you run full shots from a distribution center in the basement to each location? Or run one shot upstairs and then splice off of them? How far can a coax signal go without needing an amp to boost the signal? And lastly is there anything else I should take into consideration when doing the phone and cable wiring while everything is opened? Thanks again!!

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Old 03-08-2010, 11:50 AM   #2
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Couple questions regarding Electrical Codes


Recessed lighting is allowed in closet as long as there are a lenses on the fixtures. Genereally not good as the wattages are severely limited, thus giving less light.

I always use individual home runs for coax. Daisy chaining for TX is okay but I always run individual home runs for these as well. Future networking will be much easier.

If there is an area you plan to use for entertainment equipment you might consider two coax and two Cat5 for this area just in case of cable and/or satellite consideration.

Additionally, anywhere you may consider a TIVO a phone line would also be needed.

Generally, it's much easier to install the cable now while the walls are open.


Last edited by brric; 03-08-2010 at 11:51 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:43 PM   #3
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Couple questions regarding Electrical Codes


Great. Thanks for the quick response. I am planning on running individual home runs for each telephone and coax and i'm putting multiple jacks in each bedroom to not limit possible re-arrangements. So there really isn't any requirements when running the cat5/coax cables? Do they have to be at certain height/distance from any electrical wire? I know they can't be run through same hole as electrical but can the two be run together? Also are hardwired smoke dectors supposed to be on separate circuit? Thanks
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:52 PM   #4
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Couple questions regarding Electrical Codes


Info on lights in closet per NEC (maybe 2005 code)

Quote:
NEC 410.8 Luminaires (Fixtures) in Clothes Closets.

(B) Luminaire (Fixture) Types Permitted. Listed luminaires
(fixtures) of the following types shall be permitted to
be installed in a closet:
(1) A surface-mounted or recessed incandescent luminaire
(fixture) with a completely enclosed lamp
(2) A surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaire
(fixture)

(D) Location. Luminaires (fixtures) in clothes closets shall
be permitted to be installed as follows:
(1) Surface-mounted incandescent luminaires (fixtures) installed
on the wall above the door or on the ceiling,
provided there is a minimum clearance of 300 mm
(12 in.) between the luminaire (fixture) and the nearest
point of a storage space
(2) Surface-mounted fluorescent luminaires (fixtures) installed
on the wall above the door or on the ceiling,
provided there is a minimum clearance of 150 mm
(6 in.) between the luminaire (fixture) and the nearest
point of a storage space
(3) Recessed incandescent luminaires (fixtures) with a completely
enclosed lamp installed in the wall or the ceiling,
provided there is a minimum clearance of 150 mm (6 in.)
between the luminaire (fixture) and the nearest point of a
storage space
(4) Recessed fluorescent luminaires (fixtures) installed in
the wall or the ceiling, provided there is a minimum
clearance of 150 mm (6 in.) between the luminaire
(fixture) and the nearest point of a storage space
410.9 Space for Cove Lighting. Coves shall have adequate
space and shall be located so that lamps and equipment
can be properly installed and maintained.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:54 PM   #5
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Couple questions regarding Electrical Codes


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregt848 View Post
Great. Thanks for the quick response. I am planning on running individual home runs for each telephone and coax and i'm putting multiple jacks in each bedroom to not limit possible re-arrangements. So there really isn't any requirements when running the cat5/coax cables? Do they have to be at certain height/distance from any electrical wire? I know they can't be run through same hole as electrical but can the two be run together? Also are hardwired smoke dectors supposed to be on separate circuit? Thanks

Coax and Cat5 should be ideally at least several inches away from power wiring but it is not mandated. Mostly to prevent possible RFI rather than any safety issues.

Some areas require dedicated circuits for smoke alarms but it is not a code requirement. Depending upon what code cycle you are dealing with arc-fault circuits will come into play.

Coax and Cat5 may absolutely be run together.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:33 PM   #6
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Ok thanks. Thats what I had figured. If I run one shot from the outside where the cable company drops off over to the other side of the basement and then from there, run the individual home runs to every loacation, would that be ok with not too much signal loss.

Also I am using 12/2 everywhere in my 2nd floor floor remodel. As far as the smoke dectors, I originally planned to run it off the three way in the hallway. To stay consistant. Can I use 14/3 for those dectors?

Scuba dave, do you know if in our neck of the woods they require a dedicated circuit for the dectors?
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:14 PM   #7
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Couple questions regarding Electrical Codes


Smokes need to be on an AFCI protected circuit
I actully thought they could not be on a dedicated circuit - as that way you could have them turned off
But I am really not sure
I have them on a circuit with lights - AFCI breaker
That way if the breaker were to kick off for some reason I would know as some lights would not turn on

If the circuit is 15a Yes, you can use 14-3
The red wire is the signal wire between smoke alarms
They must all be tied together

I ran 14-2 from breaker to the 1st smoke (basement)
Then 14-3 from there to other smokes - 2nd floor
I branched off with 14-2 to other lights
I ran smokes for the 1st floor while working on the 2nd floor
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:57 PM   #8
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Couple questions regarding Electrical Codes


Scuba Dave gave you good info and let me add couple more tibbits along the way.,,

With recessed luminaire if you have a straght flourscent luminaire { not a screw in CFL at all } you can have either open or enclosed trim the last closet I done I used factory flourscent verison and work pretty well but if you have to use indentscent recessed luminaire you must use the shower trim or tempered glass one of the two and both are kinda restricted with wattage { I know you may ask about the PAR bulb the answer is no it is not legit as well in closet area } BTW the shower trim the bulb wattage rating will be either 40 or 60 watts depending on which shower trim and manufacter you use.

Merci,Marc
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Old 03-09-2010, 09:13 AM   #9
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Lots of great advice and info. Thanks again. So if I run the cable and cat5 say ten inches above the power i'll be fine. Can I put a box for the coax/cat 5 on one side of the stud and power/recepticles on the other, that will be fine too?

Out of curiousity, what is expected at a rough electrical inspection? What is the most and least that can be accomplished. I know mainly they want to see it opened before the insulation and walls are installed, but can everything else be completed. Recepticles wired, etc. Basically what is the most I can do? I know the inspection needs to be done and signed off before insulation installed and walls hung.
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:42 PM   #10
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Does anyone know how many 12/2 cables I can put into a 22.5 CU electrical box? I see it is stamped inside but no sure how you do the count? Are all ground wires counted as one? Hots, neutrals? If I run three 12/2's into a 22.5 box I should be ok, right?
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Old 03-29-2010, 01:47 PM   #11
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Grounds all counts as 1 = 2.25
Hots & neutrals each count as 1 =6 *2.25 = 13.5
Device counts as 2 = 4.5

Each counted needs 2.25 ci

So total is 18....if my math is correct
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregt848 View Post
Ok thanks. Thats what I had figured. If I run one shot from the outside where the cable company drops off over to the other side of the basement and then from there, run the individual home runs to every loacation, would that be ok with not too much signal loss.
This sounds fine to me. Keep this in mind: most of the loss occurs when you split cable. If you are splitting a CATV signal the losses may not be significant unless you are splitting to a large number of outlets (say, more than 4 or 5) or your home runs are really long (say more than 50 feet). If it is an over the air signal you will probably want to get an amplifier unless the TV station signals are really strong.

I had to remove all splitters from my over-the-air signal to receive some weaker stations. I plan to get a distribution amplifier this summer to fix that problem. With digital TV it's all or nothing.

Robert
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:38 PM   #13
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Hmm, I got 18 the first time and 20.25 the next time I added. Must be a trick math problem. ha ha. Either way it is under the 22.5, so i should be ok. Dave, thanks for supply that formula, know you don't have to include pigtails do you?

Last question, I just want to make sure I don't have any issues with the inspector and want to make sure this is allowed. Can I run my wires on the back side of a kneewall on the unfinished side up top where the studded kneewall meets the rafters. Say run a piece of strapping along (perpendicluar) the rafters to run and staple the wires? This side will be unfinished and the studs will maybe be covered by foam board. It obviously would cover the wires, they will be visual. This will prevent me from running wires under the floor joists if ok.
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:41 PM   #14
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Pigtails do not count
If a wire runs thru the box, but is not cut...then it only counts as 1

As far as I know you can run the wires along the back of the knee wall
I use a piece of 1x4 usually & secure the wire to that
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Old 03-29-2010, 02:58 PM   #15
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I find it extremely interesting at how much the CEC differs from the NEC. grounds don't count here unless they're insulated and every two marrettes count as one conductor i think.

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