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Old 11-18-2013, 06:21 PM   #46
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countertop receptacle question.


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oh and here is (4)

(4) Separate Spaces. Countertop spaces separated by rangetops, refrigerators, or sinks shall be considered as separate countertop spaces in applying the requirements of 210.52(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3).


i can't believe i overlooked that. i stand corrected, a receptacle is required within 2' of a sink edge. damn this code!

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Old 11-18-2013, 07:17 PM   #47
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i can't believe i overlooked that. i stand corrected, a receptacle is required within 2' of a sink edge. damn this code!
Most guys are prevailing in a certain area, but not all….
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Old 11-19-2013, 02:54 AM   #48
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countertop receptacle question.


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6' ......
Actually we're both wrong. There seems to be an update in our code:

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8. Kitchens:
a)Kitchen counter receptacles must be located on the wall behind the counter work surface so that no point along the wall is more than 900 mm from a receptacle. This generally requires that receptacles be spaced 1.8 m apart.
b)Sinks, built-in equipment, and isolated work surfaces less than 300 mm long at the wall, need not be included when calculating the spacing of counter receptacles.
c)At least one receptacle shall be provided at each permanently fixed island counter and at each peninsular counter space, that is 300 mm x 600 mm or larger.
d)Kitchen counter receptacles must be of the “15A split” type, as illustrated in FIGURE 20 on page 26, or 20A T-slot.
e)A receptacle must be installed for a refrigerator and must be supplied by a branch circuit that does not supply any other outlets except that of a recessed clock receptacle.
f)Receptacles installed within 1.5 m of sinks shall be protected by a ground fault circuit interrupter (GFCI).
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:13 AM   #49
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countertop receptacle question.


Typically (round here) wing walls are excluded from the wall spacing requirements for counter top receptacles.

I'm also not sure where you are pulling this 36" inches from. The code is clear. No point along the wall shall be more than 24" inches from the nearest receptacle. That means you could have a stand alone 4' counter and only be required one receptacle.

The 6' counter in your example would not need two circuits unless it is the only counter over 12" in the kitchen.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:23 AM   #50
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It this whole argument, I agree with ItsNot's assessment. The receptacle "behind" the sink could be counted for the receptacle within 2' of the edge of the sink. It's not required to be there, but since it "is", it can be used. That would mean that the next recept should be 48" (or less) from the one behind the sink.

I will admit, it is a grey area that I haven't run into out in the field and I could see an inspector siding with Philly.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:34 AM   #51
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It this whole argument, I agree with ItsNot's assessment. The receptacle "behind" the sink could be counted for the receptacle within 2' of the edge of the sink. It's not required to be there, but since it "is", it can be used. That would mean that the next recept should be 48" (or less) from the one behind the sink.

I will admit, it is a grey area that I haven't run into out in the field and I could see an inspector siding with Philly.

NOPE ,, cause the line STARTS at the edge of the sink ... so the measurement DOES NOT COUNT on either side behind the sink ...as stated CLEARLY in the code ( one of the few things that is clear LOL )
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Old 11-19-2013, 07:05 AM   #52
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countertop receptacle question.


There are many things inspectors let fly in a practicality standpoint...this, I believe, is one of those situations.
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Old 11-19-2013, 08:22 AM   #53
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countertop receptacle question.


my house has a bump-out window centered over the kitchen sink, about a foot wider or so than the sink (on each side) and the bottom of the window frame is a couple inches above the countertop surface. makes a nice 'shelf' for putting plants, etc. the wall receptacles on either side of the sink are 24" measured from the edge of the window box, not the sink edge (receptacles about 36" from the sink edge). technically a violation but practically, not an issue and if the inspector even noticed, i'm sure that's why it was passed.

but this got me thinking about the 210.52(c)(1) and the exception. say it was a corner-mounted sink and the distance from the rear of the sink to the corner wall is more than 18". this would imply that the wall space behind the sink would no longer be exempt and count toward 'regular' countertop wall space. but 210.42(c)(4) indicates sinks break up countertops into separate spaces. so where is the 'breakline' between the spaces? along the center line of the sink?
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:42 AM   #54
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my house has a bump-out window centered over the kitchen sink, about a foot wider or so than the sink (on each side) and the bottom of the window frame is a couple inches above the countertop surface. makes a nice 'shelf' for putting plants, etc. the wall receptacles on either side of the sink are 24" measured from the edge of the window box, not the sink edge (receptacles about 36" from the sink edge). technically a violation but practically, not an issue and if the inspector even noticed, i'm sure that's why it was passed.

but this got me thinking about the 210.52(c)(1) and the exception. say it was a corner-mounted sink and the distance from the rear of the sink to the corner wall is more than 18". this would imply that the wall space behind the sink would no longer be exempt and count toward 'regular' countertop wall space. but 210.42(c)(4) indicates sinks break up countertops into separate spaces. so where is the 'breakline' between the spaces? along the center line of the sink?



Correct.....
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:43 AM   #55
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There are many things inspectors let fly in a practicality standpoint...this, I believe, is one of those situations.

Yes in the real world there are times like this... Agreed....
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:48 AM   #56
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[/B]


Correct.....
i mean, that's a common sense conclusion and i believe it is the intent of the code but it is not explicitly stated. it would be nice if the code gave a little more direction.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:30 AM   #57
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countertop receptacle question.


Thanks for the replies. I'll just stick the outlet on the wall behind the sink and forget about it.

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