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Old 12-07-2007, 01:24 PM   #16
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Is this a cose violation


I appreciate all the responses to my questions. I thought of something today and hope this will be the last question on this matter.
How do I find out if the electrical contractor issued plans on this house for say 12 gauge wiring then used 14 gauge? Seeing as how I agree it is a hack job.

Thanks,
Ben

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Old 12-07-2007, 02:04 PM   #17
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Is this a cose violation


15 amp circuit require 14 gauge wiring and 20 amp circuits require 12 gauge wiring.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:36 PM   #18
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The breaker and wire as said are 14 awg for 15 amp protected circuits and 12 awg for 20 amp protected circuits. So I don't think your problems rest with wire choice by the contractor. The breaker determines the trip point. So if all the circuits are 15 amp that are tripping it would appear you have overload problems.

Were the breakers that tripped in the bedroom for the master bathroom circuits? If so were they 20 amp breakers or 15 amp?

If he knows he hacked you then only a court order will get that information. Bedroom branch circuits may or may not be on afci breakers many areas have not adopted that requirement of the nec but only your codes department would know or not. I find it strange though hat you are having multiple problems on different branch circuits in a brand new home. It would probably be in your best interest to pursue a local solution to this. The home was inspected but that doesn't always mean that they will look carefully at all aspects of the install. I doubt from the sound of things the electrical contractor is going to be very cooperative. So you may have to get an electrician in there to sort through how the house was wired and if any oversites or mistakes were made. The wiring overlay diagram would be nice to have if you can get it for the electrician to review. Sorry but sounds like you have issues outside of what we can do for you here. Others may have more comments so check back.

Last edited by Stubbie; 12-07-2007 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:45 PM   #19
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Get an opinion/inspection from a licensed electrical contractor in your area. Have them write a report. Maybe it is not as bad as we think, but a professional opinion and possible code violations found, would give you all you need to take this matter to the authority you chose. Don't wait. Do it today.....John
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:51 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
Hack job. Perfect description on the install. 15 amp circuit for the WHOLE garage. Dispicable.
Contact the builder right away since this is a brand new house.
The dedicated circuit for the opener while not required, is sure darn good thinking.
In a standard two car garage, (2) twenty amp circuits sounds about right, from a design standpoint.
I would have concerns regarding the whole job.
Did the OP PURCHASE another circuit? Having 4 receptacles in a garage is above and beyond code. And there is no limit on how many receptacles one can place on a residential convenience circuit. It is possible the builder would not pay for anything above code minimum, and if this is the case, AND the OP did not purchase an extra circuit - that the EC is telling the HO in so many words "you got what you paid for."

Many people move into a new residence and complain of things like, the toaster, coffeepot and broiler trip the kitchen circuit when they're all on at the same time. This would be normal, not a sign of defective workmanship.

In the 80's it was typical to place the garage receptacle, the outdoor receptacle(s) and all of the bathroom receptacles on ONE 15a GFCI circuit. Customer complaints up the wazoo especially in homes with 3 baths and a powder room. Couldn't run 2 blowdriers simultaniously. Today, it's still legal to put all the bathroom receptacles on one 20a GFCI circuit. Not a good design choice IMHO but when builders demand the lowest possible bids from the ECs, this is the type of thing that results.

For all we know, the GDO is on a circuit with the garage receptacles and other items as well. For all we know, this might just be a case where the minimum allowable isn't enough for this particular HO.

My own bedroom circuit trips if I plug an electric heater into it. That doesn't mean there's something wrong, it means I'm overloading the circuit. Nobody can issue a warranty for that.

Maybe the OP can describe the house and the circuit layout a little better before we assume the EC has done a hack job.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:11 PM   #21
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Did the OP PURCHASE another circuit? Having 4 receptacles in a garage is above and beyond code.

Many people move into a new residence and complain of things like, the toaster, coffeepot and broiler trip the kitchen circuit when they're all on at the same time. This would be normal, not a sign of defective workmanship.
Your first comment is right on, but your second is completely off. The Broiler should be on a separate circuit for a "just built" house. Also, two separate circuits are required for kitchen counter convenience receptacles that aren't shared anywhere else, except possibly the dining room on an adjoining wall.

In Garages, a separate switched lighting circuit is the minimum requirement of code, but anything installed, should work. If he/she can't get a normal load to function in that room(garage) something is still wrong.
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Old 12-07-2007, 06:37 PM   #22
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I'm new to this forum and I basicly joined to share my expertice in the electrical feild and since they don't like diyers in the electrical forum i would like to help in any way possible. So far I like what I here but I would like to clarfy the code issue. According to the 2005 NEC any appliance i.e. the garage door opener needs to be on it's own breaker to the manufacturer's specs (usually 20 amps). Lighting is fine to be on a 15 amp circuirt if there is not too many lights. A GFCI is required on it's own 20 amp circuit for any garage. Like i said earlier your thought are all in the right direction i just wanted to clarify a litte.
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Old 12-07-2007, 06:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredog View Post
According to the 2005 NEC any appliance i.e. the garage door opener needs to be on it's own breaker to the manufacturer's specs (usually 20 amps).
First off, welcome.

Second, please choose another font. Impact is terrible on the eyes.

Third, can you give a code reference to what you are saying?
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Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:06 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by kgphoto View Post

In Garages, a separate switched lighting circuit is the minimum requirement of code, but anything installed, should work. If he/she can't get a normal load to function in that room(garage) something is still wrong.
I'm feeling like I need to see a code reference for this as well.

Andy...always here to learn
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:07 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredog View Post
I'm new to this forum and I basicly joined to share my expertice in the electrical feild and since they don't like diyers in the electrical forum i would like to help in any way possible. So far I like what I here but I would like to clarfy the code issue. According to the 2005 NEC any appliance i.e. the garage door opener needs to be on it's own breaker to the manufacturer's specs (usually 20 amps). Lighting is fine to be on a 15 amp circuirt if there is not too many lights. A GFCI is required on it's own 20 amp circuit for any garage. Like i said earlier your thought are all in the right direction i just wanted to clarify a litte.


I need some code sections for the statements I underlined...
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:10 PM   #26
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I love code.
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:12 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Andy in ATL View Post
I love code.
Me too...
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Old 12-07-2007, 08:29 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredog View Post
I'm new to this forum and I basicly joined to share my expertice in the electrical feild and since they don't like diyers in the electrical forum i would like to help in any way possible. So far I like what I here but I would like to clarfy the code issue. According to the 2005 NEC any appliance i.e. the garage door opener needs to be on it's own breaker to the manufacturer's specs (usually 20 amps).
Not true, according to the NEC.

Quote:
Lighting is fine to be on a 15 amp circuirt if there is not too many lights.

A GFCI is required on it's own 20 amp circuit for any garage.

Not true. A garage receptacle can be on a 15a circuit, shared with any other convenience circuit in the house. It needs to be GFCI protected, but it could include livingroom or bedroom outlets as well. Unless a new homeowner specifically purchases a dedicated circuit for the garage receptacle, I can guarantee you, on a spec house, it's not going to be on it;s own circuit.
Quote:
Like i said earlier your thought are all in the right direction i just wanted to clarify a litte.
It may very well prove out that the only problem with the OP's wiring is that it's code minimum, and this simply isn't enough to meet the needs of the OP.
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Old 12-08-2007, 01:00 PM   #29
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All accessible garage outlets need gfci protection 210--8a3

this does not apply to the one in the ceiling for the opener, unless you start using it as a convenience outlet. same section

garage vehicle door doesn't require a light, but pass through does 210-70A2b


One wall switched lighting outlet in garage 210--70A2a

these are from the 2002 code NEC, don't forget local and states codes for your area also apply.
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Old 12-08-2007, 05:59 PM   #30
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If the garage is detached, does it have to have a light?

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