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Old 12-21-2009, 06:27 PM   #31
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


Yes it is an extra ground with a yellow stripe and a bigger price

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Old 12-21-2009, 06:30 PM   #32
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


I always just run my PC off a UPS
Kinda funny when power goes out & my PC is still running
Used to happen at the last house all the time
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:34 PM   #33
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


I don't have to worry about that because I installed a whole house generator. We are forever losing our lights in Marshfield.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:11 PM   #34
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


Scuba, wow, for someone who isn't well versed on the Isolated/Dedicated ground thing, you're very angry and argumentative. I appreciate your help, but if you're just throwing out accusations, then I don't need it.

I finished 90% of the wiring and studded up the basement. I had an electrican (licensed commercial inspector) come and look & everything passed code. The Kitchen was on it's own dedicated outlet circuit for two outlets, but it was grandfathered in.

The lights in the "Kitchen" on my drawing are outlets and lights for a dining room, but there's no divider so it looks like part of the kitchen. Bad drawing, but it passed code as-is, and I'm rewiring the two outlets and the fan plus it's switch on it's own circuit, it is *not* part of the kitchen.

Bathroom was also passing code, it's not a full bathroom and it was sold and passed inspection before I even rewired it. And yes, I did all 20 amp outlets throughout the house.

As for the kitchen, from Black & Decker "Complete Guide to Home Wiring" written 2 years ago "Two 20 Amp Small Appliance Circuits can be wired using one 12/3 cable supplying power to both circuits" from here (goto page 233 if it doesn't come through in the link):

http://books.google.com/books?id=0SB...age&q=&f=false

AND, while Lowes might not be THE best source, they wouldn't steer people wrong or into code violations into something they sell every day. No offense, but I trust Lowes technical people more than I'd trust an "extreme DIY" because as good as you may be, an army of technical people and lawyers proofreading would be more reliable than any one source.


As for the isolated ground that others are asking about:


Yes, I did use the Orange outlets with the triangle. I did install one the correct way (and yes coding Red for Ground *IS* good for code) using a metal box and grounding it this way:
COLOR IN OUTLET IN BOX

Black To Brass Screw To HOT Circuit
White To Silver Screw To Neutral Bar
Green To Metal Box To Grounding Bar
RED (coded grn) To Ground Screw To Grounding Bar also
Now, the instructions not only given by Hubbel inside the package stated this way, but also on lowes' website.

Read more at this industry forum: http://www.electrical-contractor.net...&Number=180025

I just don't know if I can ground with the insulated coded red/green wire and get the same effect without grounding the bare wire too since it's not going to a metal box.

The purpose of these outlets is to give an un-inturrupted path back directly to the box to send out a surge as quickly as possible. I believe doing so in an electric box would still work (just as hooking up a normal, dedicated line), but if the bare wire touches anything on the way back to the box it could send the surge down different paths and not ground itself as effeciently as the insulated line (in theory) will provide. I just don't see how grounding the box to the panel will do anything since the outlet is not connected to the box anyway because the bare wire isn't pigtailed to the outlet like on a normal outlet. What does the bare wire redundant ground do for these outlets? Anybody know?
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:18 PM   #35
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


When you rewire something you are required to meet current code, not pick & choose

And yes the big box stores have no clue
They do steer people into code violations due to their extreme lack of knowledge of code
Big sign at the local store telling people the wrong gauge wire to use
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:29 PM   #36
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


If you are trying to use an IGR in a plastic box (I still don't know why), you will have to attach the insulated grounding wire to the green screw, and come up with some way to ground the yoke with the bare wire, as it is isolated from the receptacle itself.
And yes, while remarking a conductor in a multiconductor cable to green is code compliant (250.119(B)), there is a caveat that restricts the use of said remarking to situations where the "... conditions of maintenance and supervision ensure that only qualified persons service the installation... " not what you will find in a residential application.
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Old 12-21-2009, 08:46 PM   #37
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


Dang you beat me to it...

Interesting that the top yoke on my IG receptacles are connected to the grounding green screw
Only the bottom screw is not grounded
Possibly so a metal box will be grounded ?
But a metal faceplate will not ?
But there is a brass connection from the back to the faceplate screw on the ones I have

Better quality then the big box ?
Pass & Seymour
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:27 PM   #38
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


Quote:
Originally Posted by HIVOLT View Post
I was just reading your post and have a question. You mentioned that you connected the isolated ground to the existing ground bar in the panel. Is this the same ground bar that has the neutral (white) and ground wires attached?
You failed to note that the OP (from my understanding of his post) connected the "Isolated Ground" (the red wire, which is a Code violation in itself, as other posters have pointed out) to a water pipe , at the same time it was connected to the box and the grounding bar in the panel. Rendering it (minus the Code violations) a NON-Isolated Ground. I apologize for pointing out that the OP does not --at this time-- have a fundamental understanding of the purpose and function of an Isolated Ground. The way the (over priced) Isolated Ground receptacle works is that the Ground prong is NOT attached to the Band, or Saddle. Thus, attaching the Ground lead to the box renders that circuit GROUNDLESS!

Last edited by spark plug; 12-22-2009 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Clarifying some statements!
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:35 PM   #39
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


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Originally Posted by spark plug View Post
You failed to note that the OP (from my understanding of his post) connected the "Isolated Ground" (the red wire, which is a Code violation in itself, as other posters have pointed out) to a water pipe , at the same time it was connected to the box and the grounding bar in the panel. Rendering it (minus the Code violations) a NON-Isolated Ground. I apologize for pointing out that the OP does not --at this time-- have a fundamental understanding of the purpose and function of an Isolated Ground. The way the (over priced) Isolated Ground receptacle works is that the Ground prong is NOT attached to the Band, or Saddle. Thus, attaching the Ground lead to the box renders that circuit GROUNDLESS!
But, it's "double grounded". It must be better! It will protect his thousands of dollars worth of equipment.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:38 PM   #40
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


Spark plug, if you continued reading on you would of found that it was my son (know it all apprentice) answering the question.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:45 PM   #41
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


jdm001 (poster #34, OP) I see that you admonish Scuba Dave about being "Argumentative". Please read what House Helper and I have to say about the correctness (or the lack of it) and proficiency of hooking up the Isolated ground receptacle/circuit the way you describe you did it. Scuba Dave and others on this website are here to help you and steer you in the right direction. As far as relying on the technical and legal knowledge of the employees at the Home centers ('Bless them. They're dedicated people trying to help) They (typically) have had no training or experience in the field of merchandise that they're working at. Maybe there should be a law(we can't have a law for everything) That a counterperson should not work at a specific department without having training and experience in that field. Or the store should have a disclaimer in big lettering not to rely on their technical advice!

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Spark plug, if you continued reading on you would of found that it was my son (know it all apprentice) answering the question.
I'd appreciate telling me which post # you are referring to. But as a general rule in life, we know, that when we're young we know everything. The older we get we realize that we know less. When very old, we realize we know nothing

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But, it's "double grounded". It must be better! It will protect his thousands of dollars worth of equipment.
Yeah. But when we go to School, we realize that Electricity doesn't work the way we "Think", or the way we want it to work!!!
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:58 PM   #42
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


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I'd appreciate telling me which post # you are referring to. But as a general rule in life, we know, that when we're young we know everything. The older we get we realize that we know less. When very old, we realize we know nothing
Post #22.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:59 PM   #43
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


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Yeah. But when we go to School, we realize that Electricity doesn't work the way we "Think", or the way we want it to work!!!
I know what you mean. All I know is black is positive and white is negative.

Last edited by jerryh3; 12-22-2009 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:17 PM   #44
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


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Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
Dang you beat me to it...

Interesting that the top yoke on my IG receptacles are connected to the grounding green screw
Only the bottom screw is not grounded
Possibly so a metal box will be grounded ?
But a metal faceplate will not ?
But there is a brass connection from the back to the faceplate screw on the ones I have

Better quality then the big box ?
Pass & Seymour
The way it was explained to me. (And I've installed lots of 'em, mainly on computer and other sensitive data circuits, by request of the customer.) The purpose of the Isolated Ground is that it should not pick up the electronic "Noise" of the general grounding system. (which can negatively affect data). Thus, the Grounding prong of the IG receptacle is connected to a line that goes directly to the Ground rod! BTW. P&S have high quality products, which are generally not carried by the Home Centers. But in my area they DO carry them as well!
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Old 12-22-2009, 01:20 PM   #45
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Correct wiring diagram for 1 story house


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Originally Posted by spark plug View Post
The way it was explained to me. (And I've installed lots of 'em, mainly on computer and other sensitive data circuits, by request of the customer.) The purpose of the Isolated Ground is that it should not pick up the electronic "Noise" of the general grounding system. (which can negatively affect data). Thus, the Grounding prong of the IG receptacle is connected to a line that goes directly to the Ground rod! BTW. P&S have high quality products, which are generally not carried by the Home Centers. But in my area they DO carry them as well!
I don't believe you have to go back to the rod. Only to the initial bonding point.

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