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Old 12-09-2008, 04:09 PM   #16
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


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Originally Posted by Piedmont View Post
I'm paying $0.20449 per killowatt, I think I'm borderline. Sounds like I'd save about $7.38/year if my house used 300 ft (but also don't know how much #10 vs. #12 goes for).
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...2+wiki&aq=f&oq=

The annuity is the money you save, or pay yourself, in the future by using the larger wire.
The present value is what you spend now to get that annuity; the cost of the larger wire, better ways to invest your money instead of buying larger wire, etc..
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Old 12-09-2008, 05:28 PM   #17
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


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Originally Posted by Piedmont View Post
I'm paying $0.20449 per killowatt, I think I'm borderline. Sounds like I'd save about $7.38/year if my house used 300 ft (but also don't know how much #10 vs. #12 goes for).
10awg THHN was going for $95 per 500 for a long time vs $55 for 12awg THHN. (retail prices in Wisconsin).

12awg has dropped to recently to $45. I didn't look at the current price on 10awg last time I was at the store, but I would suspect it is down to around $80 or $85.

Jamie
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Old 12-10-2008, 09:19 PM   #18
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


The copper industry saying 'use bigger wires'......imagine that!!

Kind of like the circuit breaker manufacturing industry saying 'require arc-fault breakers'.

Anyone else see ulterior motives here??!?

I'm surprised the copper industry didn't play the 'safety card'!

Rob
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:11 AM   #19
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


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I'm surprised the copper industry didn't play the 'safety card'!

Rob
We know that the minimum sizes listed in the code are already oversized for the intended load. They know they cannot convince the rest of the sane community of engineers, electricians, and code panelists that #10 would be "more safe" that #12 for up to 20A. The safety card cannot be played because they would be laughed right out the door.

No, this is equivalent to Ford saying you "need" to buy an Excursion.

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Old 12-11-2008, 03:56 AM   #20
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


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Originally Posted by Piedmont View Post
I'm paying $0.20449 per killowatt, I think I'm borderline. Sounds like I'd save about $7.38/year if my house used 300 ft (but also don't know how much #10 vs. #12 goes for).
300 ft ??? 300 ft of wire in your house? is that it? thats less than whats on a spool, if its a newer home around 3000 square feet probley more like 5000 feet of wire.
I can see increasing wire sizes for long runs and high constant loads, or motors that push the limits of the regs regaurding amperage draw on a wire, but not for simple lights and recepticles, just a waist at that point, not only more money in materials, larger boxes to compensate for box fill, but increase in labour as well. so a 15,000 dollar wiring job on a new home can jump to 18,000 easily, does anyone realy think that ther will be 3000 in savings, say in less than 20 years?
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:53 AM   #21
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


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Well, I'm sold. I'm rewiring my house now with 2" x 3" copper bars to every receptacle. Just to make sure I get them insulated, I'll enclose them in a double walled glass vacuum tubes, with the inner tube circulating liquid nitrogen. I'm digging the ditch to the poco transformer now. I'm running solid silver rods, 2000 kcmil, just to be on the safe side. Wouldn't want too much voltage drop. I built the fractional distillation plant last night that will process my liquid nitrogen from the atmosphere. So I'm almost ready to order my bars.
Better put up a tall electrified fence to keep the scrap thieves out!
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Old 12-11-2008, 02:25 PM   #22
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


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300 ft ??? 300 ft of wire in your house? is that it? thats less than whats on a spool, if its a newer home around 3000 square feet probley more like 5000 feet of wire.
I can see increasing wire sizes for long runs and high constant loads, or motors that push the limits of the regs regaurding amperage draw on a wire, but not for simple lights and recepticles, just a waist at that point, not only more money in materials, larger boxes to compensate for box fill, but increase in labour as well. so a 15,000 dollar wiring job on a new home can jump to 18,000 easily, does anyone realy think that ther will be 3000 in savings, say in less than 20 years?
I think I have more than 300 feet out in my scrap bin that I have gutted from my house while I have been doing my kitchen remodel and panel upgrade. (old 12-2 without ground, SE cable used for stove, etc.)

I've used up a spool of 14-3, almost 2 14-2, half a spool (250) of 12-2, and am about half way thought the 6 spools of THHN on my caddy. Just in the last few months.

There have to be thousands of feet of copper in my house, even before I started going at it.

Jamie
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Old 12-11-2008, 04:02 PM   #23
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


An 8' x 10' room, 80 ft², 36' perimeter, takes 3 outlets plus overhead light = 50' of Romex?
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Old 12-11-2008, 05:34 PM   #24
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


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An 8' x 10' room, 80 ft², 36' perimeter, takes 3 outlets plus overhead light = 50' of Romex?
50' or a little more depending on how you run the circuit, then you have to feed that circuit. don't forget the rest of the house,. How Many homes have you wired?
I've wired welfare housing, done very basic to minimum code and it only takes a couple thousand feet for 1000 square feet, and I have done custom homes that have lots of lighting and lots of extras that can easily eat up 6000 or more feet of wire, 50 or more circuits in the panel. In 20+ years I have never seen a house take only 300 or even only 1300 feet of wire to wire it, maybe back previous to 1940 when you were lucky to have one outlet in each room, ad the whole house would take no more than 4 circuits at most to wire it.
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Old 12-12-2008, 02:50 PM   #25
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Copper Industry Says: Use bigger wires!


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50' or a little more depending on how you run the circuit, then you have to feed that circuit. don't forget the rest of the house,.

How Many homes have you wired?
None: in MD you need a license just to be a handyman.

I've wired welfare housing, done very basic to minimum code and it only takes a couple thousand feet for 1000 square feet, and I have done custom homes that have lots of lighting and lots of extras that can easily eat up 6000 or more feet of wire, 50 or more circuits in the panel. In 20+ years I have never seen a house take only 300 or even only 1300 feet of wire to wire it, maybe back previous to 1940 when you were lucky to have one outlet in each room, ad the whole house would take no more than 4 circuits at most to wire it.
Sounds like the average house nowadays needs 3000' to 6000' feet of Romex.
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