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Old 06-14-2010, 01:14 PM   #1
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Cook County Grounding rules


Long time Reader, First time Poster. I live in Cook County, Illinois about 20 miles South of Chicago. I have a Brick Bungaloo that has galvanaized water pipes, that are rotting at an alarming rate. I want to change the Electrical Ground from teh Cold Water pipe to a external grounding rod. I don't know if this should go in the Electrical Room or the Plumbing Room.

All I know is that the ground cant be worth a crap if it is going through old rotten pipe with Teflon tape on some joints.

I also know that if I change the supply to Schedule 40 PVC there is NO conductivity, and that is no good.

It looks like the previous owner had an external ground rod that came off the overhead service meter, but thanks to a bunch of overgrown ivy, that was damaged.

Any help would be appreciated.

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Old 06-14-2010, 01:24 PM   #2
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Cook County Grounding rules


A grounding rod is not a replacement for "bonding" (not grounding) your water pipe. They server different purposes.

Bonding your water pipe protects you in case your pipes accidentally become electrified, like in a dishwasher or washer.

Ground rods are for lighting protection. If a house has no ground rods, the water pipes can also be used for this.

I think I have that right...

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Old 06-14-2010, 01:26 PM   #3
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Cook County Grounding rules


So how good is a "bonded" water pipe that is plastic? That wouldn't carry any current I wouldn't think.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:30 PM   #4
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Cook County Grounding rules


Not good at all

If you replace a section of your water system with plastic, you should install a "jumper" that connects the surrounding sections of metal pipe.

If you change the supply from the street to plastic, then I think you need ground rods.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:33 PM   #5
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Cook County Grounding rules


Quote:
Originally Posted by McSweny1103 View Post
So how good is a "bonded" water pipe that is plastic? That wouldn't carry any current I wouldn't think.
no, it wouldn't but what is the point? You aren't required to bond plastic pipes. You are required to bond metallic portions of systems that could become energized. That means, if you have plastic running into your house but the internal piping is metal, you still have to bond to the metal pipe.


I know Chicago has some special rules for electrical installations. I cannot address them as I do not know them. In areas where the NEC is accepted as written, you would drive 2 ground rods no closer than 6 feet apart. Bond them to your service disconnect with #6 copper wire.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:34 PM   #6
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Cook County Grounding rules


Ok, Not to Jump topics, but this should still be inline with my original question. How long can a Jumper be? My breaker box is on one side of the house (NW corner), and my copper water service that comes out of the basement floor is on the opposide side (SE corner). I know you lose voltage, amperage, and wattage the longer the cable is.

So assuming I could use 0 gauge cable how long can i make that jumper?
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:46 PM   #7
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Cook County Grounding rules


the wire is as long as it needs to be and no longer. the connection is to be within 5 feet of where it enters the building.

the size of the bonding jumper is based on the service feeders. a residential service of 200 amps or less would generally be of the size to require a #4 cu.. 100 amp or smaller services would require a #8 cu.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:49 PM   #8
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Cook County Grounding rules


Hello , Are you on a well or public water ??????? ? also is the water service that enters you house metal ( copper , lead, ) also what is the amperage of the electric service . I believe that for a 100 amp service the ground wire is a # 8 awg copper wire , and a # 3 awg copper wire for a 200 amp service. If you are on a public water and a water meter the meter has to be jumped also. Kerry
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:53 PM   #9
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Cook County Grounding rules


So It would be ok to make the Jumper cable be in the area of 100 ft long, that length is needed due to the l shaped path it would have to take, straight down the north side of the house, and then 90deg right turn up between the joists to the opposite corner of the house then back down from the ceiling to the municipal copper water supply?

The copper supply that comes into the house is only 2 feet long total, so that should meet the 5 foot requirement you mentioned.

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Hello , Are you on a well or public water ??????? ? also is the water service that enters you house metal ( copper , lead, ) also what is the amperage of the electric service . I believe that for a 100 amp service the ground wire is a # 8 awg copper wire , and a # 3 awg copper wire for a 200 amp service. If you are on a public water and a water meter the meter has to be jumped also. Kerry

You mean it would have to be jumped back to the municipal water service? or a grounding rod?

City water, pushmatic box so I think that is 100 amp service, Copper Service, Overhead electrical service.
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:08 PM   #10
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Cook County Grounding rules


Hello I don't work that much in the south burbs any more.They make a armoured # 8 ground wire that would work for your needs .It needs to be attached to the water main on the street side of the water meter ( before the meter) and back to the electric panel and attached to the ground bar inside the panel. hope that helps with the info. Kerry
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:17 PM   #11
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Hello I don't work that much in the south burbs any more.They make a armoured # 8 ground wire that would work for your needs .It needs to be attached to the water main on the street side of the water meter ( before the meter) and back to the electric panel and attached to the ground bar inside the panel. hope that helps with the info. Kerry

How would that be run??? The copper service come up through the poured concrete floor, and the meter is attached to the buffalo box in the parkway in my front yard?

I could see running that from the bus bar over to the copper service, but all the way out to the street?!?!?
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Old 06-14-2010, 02:47 PM   #12
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Cook County Grounding rules


You simply have to "jump" the meter. Meaning - the ground wire that you are running to your panel needs to hit the copper supply on BOTH sides of the meter. So if the meter is ever removed, you still have lightning protection AND your water pipes are bonded to the electrical system.

I think the earlier poster mant the "street side" (incoming) of the meter, as opposed to the "house side" (outgoing).

See this simple image:

This is the clamp you would use to attach the wire to the pipe. You could do it with one wire. The "jumper" can just be a continuation of the same wire.

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Old 06-14-2010, 03:30 PM   #13
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Cook County Grounding rules


Goody, time to call the village since I don't have the typical meter inside the house. The meter is in the buffalo box in the street.

Yay
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:55 PM   #14
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Cook County Grounding rules


I think that means you don't have to worry about the jumper then.
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:18 PM   #15
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I think that means you don't have to worry about the jumper then.
You mean the Jumper for the meter, right?

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