Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-20-2009, 09:18 PM   #16
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


Too late to consider ever going back now. The water main has already been cut down from two to one, telephone and cable have been unified with the secondary systems having been removed from the pole back. Major structural elements in the basement have been modified to allow access to both sides of the house. Once the kitchen is moved, there will be a single gas service. Electrical is the last to go (if it ever goes).
This property is worth almost twice it's original value as a single family as opposed to a duplex. As a duplex the fair market value was limited by the [potential] rent. As this is a bit of a "snooty" neighborhood that has a number of low rent neighborhoods within a 15 min drive, rents are kept low even though home prices remain relatively high compared to neighboring communities.

In short, unless the next owner of this home likes throwing away their money, it will likely remain single family unless the dynamic of the neighborhood changes significantly. By then, I'll probably be living elsewhere!

zamoti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2009, 10:24 PM   #17
DIYer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 910
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


I second the idea that you should think twice about full house electric tankless. Consumer reports refused to even review them on the grounds that they are not even close to performing acceptable for most users, and the energy benefits are nearly nothing.
Gigs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 10:13 AM   #18
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


It would seem that the general consensus is that the electric tankless water heater is a big fat failure. HOWEVER, I'm really curious to know on what facts is this judgment based?
I'm doing my best to seek high-value investments for my home and tankless hot water seems promising, but I'm finding it difficult to find honest, unbiased, fact-based information out there. Does anyone have any solid evidence for or against these things? It seems that the original question about the electrical system has been answered, for which I am grateful, but now the conversation has moved into the actual/perceived cost savings of tankless hot water; in my case electric as installing a gas-fired system is not a cost-effective option for me (in terms of installation).

So what's the deal? Anyone with one of these things installed in their home out there care to weigh in?

Thanks again for all of the responses!
zamoti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 10:51 AM   #19
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


Ok, got off my lazy arse and just called a manufacturer. I spoke with a fellow at Stiebel-Eltron as they seem to make one of the better devices and here is what he told me regarding cost of use.
At my incoming cold water temperature which is 45 F during a cold week in Pennsylvania, with $0.14 per kwh he stated that it would cost about $150 a month to run this unit one hour solid at maximum usage (4 GPM @ 125). In summer, perhaps a little less as the incoming cold water temperature will rise a little.
So there, we have some actual numbers for usage.
FYI, I'm not trying to sell anyone on this particular device, I'm just trying to contribute solid information to the conversation. Anyone got a comparable gas calculation out there? Gas tank vs. gas tankless?
zamoti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 05:10 PM   #20
DIYer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 910
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


zamoti, yes, consumer reports compared gas tankless and gas tanked. They found that the tankless are not worth it, it would take 20+ years to recoup your investment because the energy savings are nearly zero. And once you factor in yearly professional service to clean out scale and to maintain it, it may never be worth it.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/a...heaters-ov.htm

This is the same article where they talk about how electric tankless are such a joke they won't even review them.
Gigs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 12:36 PM   #21
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


Gigs,

Thanks for the link, but this isn't really pertinent. They test a gas tankless to a gas tank. They rule out electric because of the high amperage requirement that I have at my disposal. Saying that they called electric tankless a "joke" and wouldn't test them is a bit misleading as this is what they really said:

"We didn't test electric tankless heaters because many can't deliver hot water fast enough to replace a conventional water heater if ground*water is cold. Even in areas with warm groundwater, most homeowners would need to upgrade their electrical service to power a whole-house tankless model."

Now that said, it could be the case that my 45 water may be a bit on the cold side to heat, but I've nothing to go on but the manufacturer's word that a given unit would bring 45 water up to 125 at 4GPM. This is why I'm soliciting advice based on solid evidence--I can't find much to prove or disprove the manufacturer's claims.
Anyone out there have any real-world experience or evidence thereof?

Thanks again everyone
zamoti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 12:55 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 220
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


Consider this, where you live, who would you call to fix your instant hot water heater?
harleysilo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 01:20 PM   #23
Learning by Doing
 
Leah Frances's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Easton, Maryland
Posts: 3,156
Rewards Points: 2,000
Blog Entries: 7
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


My bottom line: for me at the end of day of DIYing, a long hot shower is a luxury I do not want to live without. Honestly evaluate how you, and your family, use hot water and how you want to use it. Then make your choice.

Last easter our water heater failed (dumped 40g HOH and around 6g Fuel Oil ).

I was inclined to replace with tankless until I started mapping my plumbing system. There is a significant distance between our kitchen sink and master bath (70+ pipe feet). Both electric and gas on-demand manufacturers recommended to us that we install TWO on-demand systems: one for the kitchen/laundry, and one for the bathrooms.

Otherwise, we would sacrifice "Comfort" (their words - I interpreted to mean: if someone's in the shower don't do laundry/dishes/run dishwasher or both will get luke-warm water). Two systems and two installs began to get unreasonable $-wise. So we installed another oil fired HWH - which sips oil and NEVER EVER runs out of hot water!
__________________
If I could only remember to THINK about what I was doing before I did it.

Last edited by Leah Frances; 01-22-2009 at 01:21 PM. Reason: add units
Leah Frances is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 04:49 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,510
Rewards Points: 2,008
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Where do you find this?
Article 225.30
J. V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 05:32 PM   #25
Res Ipsa Loquitur
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southeastern PA
Posts: 363
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leah Frances View Post
Last easter our water heater failed (dumped 40g HOH and around 6g Fuel Oil ).

I was inclined to replace with tankless
My 50gal gas house water heater leaked about a year ago and I too was going the tankless route. I went to my local Lowes and bought the Bosch Aquastar whole house unit. after spending about 1200, I then got it home realizing I needed a specialized venting system for the distance I needed to go which added about another 450+ to the bill (with me doing the install). All in all, I returned the unit, bought a high-efficiency 50 gal gas heater and just replaced the previous one I had in a few hours. I figured I'll keep it as efficient as possible but not need to spend 3x the price with all the additional work!
__________________
Did you ever stop to think, then forget to start again?
handyman78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 06:09 PM   #26
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 412
Rewards Points: 254
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


Off topic but is there such thing as a direct vented tank heater? I do not hear many good things about tankless, BUT I'd like to get rid of my chimney to free up space in the attic to finish it off as living space. This would also give us room for another closet on the first floor... it's not the basement that is valuable real estate but what is above it!

Right now our tank heater goes through the chimney. Everything else is DV or B-power vented or whatever.
pcampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 08:41 PM   #27
Licensed Electrician
 
jrclen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: central wisconsin
Posts: 982
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


You can take the chimneys out of the consideration. New gas water heaters, like the new furnaces are energy efficient and use a power vent through a PVC pipe. No need for chimneys at all.

I would not even consider an electric water heater in my home. To expensive to run and to slow to recover on the tank type. Other than installs, I have no personal experience with on demand water heaters.

Disclaimer: I'm an electrician and not a plumber.
__________________
John
jrclen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2009, 01:55 PM   #28
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


One item that caught my attention was the distance from tank to point of use. My HW tank is in the middle of the house--basically close to neither my bathrooms nor my kitchen(s). I'm not wondering if an electric point of use tankless under the kitchen sink wouldn't be a good idea as the water lines for my kitchen run through an unheated crawlspace. Also, I have a second chimney access from where a furnace was removed that I could use to move the current tank about 15 feet closer to the bathrooms. Still got a gas line there too.
Now the question remains, will a single small electric point of use hot water heater be cost effective in mitigating the heat loss from the long haul through an unheated crawlspace? As for the labor, I'm good on my own and I have the extra capactiy in terms of electrical service.
Maybe I'll just say screw it, keep one tank, take the other tank and make it into a solar batch heater on the roof.
zamoti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2009, 12:51 PM   #29
DIYer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 910
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


You can insulate the pipes you know. Cost of insulation: $5
Gigs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 08:43 AM   #30
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Converting duplex to single family--what to do with electric services?


Gigs,

If you've nothing worthwhile to contribute perhaps consider not contributing. Just so you know, the pipes are very well insulated and also have an electric heat wrap on them as well as they would often freeze in the winter.

zamoti is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
duplex


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Converting a single pole switch to a 3 way Rze Electrical 7 09-13-2011 01:39 PM
Converting a single pole switch to a 3 way Rze Electrical 9 05-02-2011 11:10 AM
Converting Electric to Gas stove LaurynJohnny Appliances 16 03-26-2010 09:08 PM
Converting from Gas to Electric Stove Chloe Appliances 1 06-14-2008 04:06 PM
I'm converting a two family home from oil to gas and need info on... everything. Neep HVAC 3 10-23-2007 09:42 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.