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stqevo 10-01-2009 06:13 PM

Confused about Sub Panel
Some of you might have been following along with me on how I have been wiring up my new shop. I am a newbie at Electrical and have tried to do everything myself. As a background, I am running a subpanel out to the new shop. Now I am confused as to where which wires go where. What has got me confused was when I looked at the box on my house that is feeding the new subpanel out in the shop. Here is a picture of the new subpanel.

I am running the twisted black/white to my ground rod, but is this the ground bus or the nuetral bus? At this point I am just confused as to attach the hot wire on the top 2 connectors, but where do I attach the nuetral wire?
On my house the breakers also have the hot black wire on one side of the breaker and the nuetral white wire on the other side of the breaker. Which side connects to which colored wire? Does the hot/black go on a specific side of the breaker? I am sure it does, but at this point where I have all the recpetacles wired up correctly and now am at the point to connect power I guess I am a little confused...Thnxx for any help and info..

Scuba_Dave 10-01-2009 06:26 PM

2 Hots to the lugs of course
If that bar is isolated from the case use that as your neutral bus
If another bus did not come with it then you will need to buy one

hayewe farm 10-01-2009 06:26 PM

First of all you should have 3 conductor/plus ground not 2 cond./plus ground. Two hot wires on the breaker in the main connect to the two lugs on the breaker busses and the neutral to the neutral bus.

jbfan 10-01-2009 06:32 PM

I only see a 2 wire feed to this panel.
The way you have it now, you have 120 volt subpanel.
The black goes to one of the lugs, the white goes to the neutral bar, and the bare goes to a missing ground bar.
The wire from the ground rod also needs to go to the missing ground bar.
Is this an underground installation to a detached garage?

If so, then you used the wrong cable to feed this thing.

joed 10-01-2009 06:32 PM

You need a cable clamp on both those cables.
The cable is not proper for 240 operation. You must have a four wire feed for a sub panel.
That white/black twisted pair is in no way acceptable for a gound rod wire.
Plug all the open KOs.
Install a separate ground bar attached direct to the panel.

stqevo 10-01-2009 07:20 PM

I did exactly what the HomeDepot guy told me to do and buy. He said he was a licensed electrician. We went with a 6awg to feed the subpanel with a 2 wire setup I guess he is thinking I will use the white as the other hot. I am supposing he is having me use the bare ground wire as the neutral? for this to be 220v.
I remember I went back and forth asking whether this wire was going to be sufficient. I am thinking that the main feed wire ground runs to the bus, can the recpetacle neutral also run to this same bus in the subpanel?
Yes; at this point I am confused as I did everything the HomeDepot Electrician told me to do. I've been in construction for over 25 years, I can tell you how to do anything when it comes to woodwork, but I have quickly found out that every electrician does things differently. I know there are codes standards but you can ask 3 electricians how to do something and you will get 12 different examples on how to do it. I appreciate all the help.....I think I have it figured out...but need some re-assurance to make sure....

300zx 10-01-2009 07:30 PM

A HomeDepot licensed electrician!!!

Scuba_Dave 10-01-2009 07:31 PM

DIY Rule #1 - Do NOT take anything a Big Box employee says as the total Truth

#2 Check, 2x & 3x check information before purchase

That wire will not work
Bring it back to HD, get the Mgr if needed & get your $$ back

300zx 10-01-2009 07:35 PM

This is your Neutral Bar in Pic You also need to buy a Ground Bar.

stqevo 10-01-2009 07:43 PM

So I can't use the bare ground wire for the Neutral? Or could I add another wire to make it a 3 wire setup? The Box at my house does not have a separate ground bus. You would be horrified if you saw it. My House is 50 years old and it is a mess. It appears to have ground(bare wire) and neutrals(white wire) on the same bus bar.

Scuba_Dave 10-01-2009 07:45 PM

No you need 2 hots, insulated white neutral AND a ground

Main panel does not need a seperate ground bus

Daniel Holzman 10-01-2009 07:51 PM

I am not trying to be rude here, but I question if you did everything the Home Depot guy said, or possibly you misunderstood him, or possibly he did not understand what you wanted to do. I can see you are very confused. There are a number of problems with your setup, most of which have been pointed out in previous posts, but frankly from your posts I doubt you understand the reasons that your setup is so messed up.

I recommend you get some professional help from a local person who can hands on walk you through what you need to do. For starters, it sounds like you want a 240 volt setup, but you pulled the wrong type of wire. This in and of itself suggests you need hands on help. Despite the fact that this forum has expert electricians, it seems wrong and dangerous for anyone on this forum to try to correct your issues over the Internet. Electrical work is too dangerous to wing it like you are doing.

300zx 10-01-2009 08:01 PM

You need to follow Stubbie's advice in your other post #13 The 4 wire setup read the post agian :thumbsup:

Scuba_Dave 10-01-2009 08:32 PM

OK, it's obvious to those with experience that there are many problems here
Lets not get out of hand


There is more wrong with what you have done so far then there is "right"

NM cable can't be run underground
The wire you have will not work...period...take it back
You need grounding rods

What is the black & white twisted wire?
You said in the other thread that you would have friends helping...are they electricians?

Scuba_Dave 10-01-2009 08:49 PM

Personal attacks & making fun of people will not be tolerated

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