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Old 11-09-2008, 12:51 AM   #16
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Confused about grounding.


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what if there is metal conduit. if that is is grounded properly then you could just add grounding recepticles with a ground strap to the conduit, correct? and not have to run all new wire.

Mikeee
Conduit allowed to be used as an equipment grounding conductor: emt, liquidtight flexible metal conduit (see 350.60), flexible metal conduit (see 348.60), rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, flexible metallic tubing (when installed in accordance with 250.118(7) )

Not directly to the actual conduit, use a self grounding receptacle or grounding clips.

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Old 11-09-2008, 07:21 PM   #17
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Confused about grounding.


The more I started thinking about this, I decided to check out my fuse panel. The neutral bus bar which I was prepared to ground to, isn't really what you might think. There's basically enough screws for the neutral wire as there is fuses, maybe a couple more. A picture will probably show you what I mean. I've attached a good closeup. After looking at it, do you still suggest connecting the ground cable to the neutral bus bar?
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Old 11-09-2008, 07:31 PM   #18
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Confused about grounding.


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The more I started thinking about this, I decided to check out my fuse panel. The neutral bus bar which I was prepared to ground to, isn't really what you might think. There's basically enough screws for the neutral wire as there is fuses, maybe a couple more. A picture will probably show you what I mean. I've attached a good closeup. After looking at it, do you still suggest connecting the ground cable to the neutral bus bar?

Looks like a ground is present already and there are not any more lugs for the larger guages. You NEED to address some of the issues, open knockouts, and the missing romex connector.

Last edited by rgsgww; 11-09-2008 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 11-09-2008, 07:43 PM   #19
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Confused about grounding.


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Looks like a ground is present already and there are not any more lugs for the larger guages. You NEED to address some of the issues, open knockouts, and the missing romex connector.
That is his grounding electrode, as this is his service equipment. What he doesn't have is equipment grounding conductors to the branch circuits. Noisyone, you can buy a ground bar and attach it directly to the can for extra space. You may be able to find one that will line up with the holes already in the back of the can. Otherwise, you can drill new holes and tap them to accept a machine screw to secure the bar. This is fine for grounds. But do not place neutrals on the new bar.
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Old 11-09-2008, 07:51 PM   #20
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Confused about grounding.


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That is his grounding electrode, as this is his service equipment. What he doesn't have is equipment grounding conductors to the branch circuits. Noisyone, you can buy a ground bar and attach it directly to the can for extra space. You may be able to find one that will line up with the holes already in the back of the can. Otherwise, you can drill new holes and tap them to accept a machine screw to secure the bar. This is fine for grounds. But do not place neutrals on the new bar.
Is it safe to assume wherever I attach a ground bar (inside the fusebox of course) that it will be grounded? In other words, there is not a specific hole or location in the box it has to be on? As long as it's attached to the metal box it becomes grounded right? Hey by the way, thanks everyone for all the info. As far as the issues with the box, ya, it's definitely not perfect, but the way I see it, this house has been here since the 60's, and it's survived this long. I bought this place on foreclosure, and we've made it really nice so far, but have more to do obviously.
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Old 11-09-2008, 08:00 PM   #21
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Confused about grounding.


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That is his grounding electrode
Yes, I know that. Probably should have worded it better.
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Old 11-09-2008, 08:04 PM   #22
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Confused about grounding.


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Is it safe to assume wherever I attach a ground bar (inside the fusebox of course) that it will be grounded? In other words, there is not a specific hole or location in the box it has to be on? As long as it's attached to the metal box it becomes grounded right? Hey by the way, thanks everyone for all the info. As far as the issues with the box, ya, it's definitely not perfect, but the way I see it, this house has been here since the 60's, and it's survived this long. I bought this place on foreclosure, and we've made it really nice so far, but have more to do obviously.

Time for an upgrade. get rid of that old school stuff.
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Old 11-09-2008, 08:08 PM   #23
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Confused about grounding.


I agree wholeheartedly with chris One thing came to my mind immediately and that is that a new circuit breaker panel would be easy and quick to install after getting your permits and the service meter pulled. I'll assume that this is a 60 amp or 100 amp service? I'd give it some thought. If it is a 60 amp it may require more than just a panel but looks like a 100 to me. If just a panel your probably talking less than 100 bucks.

Your short on the service entrance conductors so the new panel may have to be raised a tad so they can reach the main breaker and the neutral can reach the neutral bar. Just a thought but I would definitely look into doing that.
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Old 11-09-2008, 08:11 PM   #24
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Confused about grounding.


You're correct, it's 100 amp. I already have the new box purchased. It's sitting on the floor in the basement just waiting to be installed. I have inlaws who can help me do it, I just don't look forward to hastling with permits and inspections. That is the ultimate plan, but my questions about grounding are for if I run any new wiring while still on this old fuse panel.
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Old 11-09-2008, 08:15 PM   #25
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Confused about grounding.


I'll never understand the idea that permits and inspections are a hassle. You've got the new panel I don't understand not installing it if your going to add some new branch circuits.
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Old 11-09-2008, 08:17 PM   #26
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Confused about grounding.


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Originally Posted by noisyone View Post
Is it safe to assume wherever I attach a ground bar (inside the fusebox of course) that it will be grounded? In other words, there is not a specific hole or location in the box it has to be on? As long as it's attached to the metal box it becomes grounded right? Hey by the way, thanks everyone for all the info. As far as the issues with the box, ya, it's definitely not perfect, but the way I see it, this house has been here since the 60's, and it's survived this long. I bought this place on foreclosure, and we've made it really nice so far, but have more to do obviously.
Yes, the metal box is bonded to the neutral, so the whole thing is grounded.

And, by the way, just because something has not previously malfunctioned in the last 40 years has no bearing on whether or not it will melt down tonight. In other words, don't leave something in violation just because it has always been in violation. It doesn't look like it would be all that difficult to put a connector on that one cable, and snap some KO seals into the two open holes.

EDIT: I just read that you have a new box purchased. What are you waiting for, man! But, some jurisdictions may not allow you to upgrade your panel without having a disconnect ahead of it. In which case you need to change your grounding electrode arrangement. Stubbie is in KS, so he may be able to shed some light on the local requirements.

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Old 11-09-2008, 08:24 PM   #27
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I'd fix the violations.

I found work done by "electricians" that scared me. It was a 14/2 tap off of a 20 amp indoor spa circuit. I knew it probably wouldn't melt and catch fire because it fed a tv only but is a violation. Had to pull new wire. Found out the spa circuit required 2 20 amps, had to pull more wire...

First thing that caught my mind was a new breaker panel. But I'd have a load calculation done because you may want to upgrade to 200 depending on the size of your house and what you plan on adding.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:33 PM   #28
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Both utilities that serve KCKs do not require or want a disconnect ahead of the panel. Any upgrade above 100 must be 200 amps. 100 can remain existing. Homeowners are allowed to replace panels last I checked but they cannot do service upgrades, you must carry a masters license and be registered with the Wyandotte county codes department.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:39 PM   #29
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Confused about grounding.


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Both utilities that serve KCKs do not require or want a disconnect ahead of the panel.

So what if I want a disconnect outside? Or are you just sayin' its not required.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:42 PM   #30
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Confused about grounding.


Not allowed, within the city limits for single family dwelling.

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