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Old 12-15-2012, 06:05 PM   #1
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


I decided to bite the bullet and hire an electrician to properly install a generator. I could have done this myself but my wife felt more comfortable hiring a pro and I didn't want to spend the time trying to figure out which breakers to get.

In order to free up the 3 slots required for the interlock kit, the electrician had to move some breakers around replace some singles with doubles. I am strating to think that he did not use the right type of breakers. I probably should have just done this myself.

I have an 40 year old Arrow Hart/Murray panel, model LC230PS. The label states that it should work with:
Murray MP, MM, EP
Bryant BRD, BRO, BAR, BR, GFCB
Westinghouse QP, QPGF
ITE EQP, QF

The electrician has added:
1 GE THQL for the generator in
3 new MH-T
1 new MP-T

I've spent all day googling and can't find much to tell me if they are compatible. I did find this link here which says the MH is compatible with the MM but I think only for certain panels. I can't find anything documented about the THQL
breaker-substitutions-murray-MH-T.pdf (application/pdf Object)

I am concerned that these are not supported on my panel... I don't mind replacing them myself but don't want to if not necessary...


thoughts?

Thanks,
Chris

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Old 12-15-2012, 06:10 PM   #2
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


The two murray breakers are correct if your panel is listed for tandem breakers(need more info,preferably a picture of the labels on the door/deadfront) but the GE breaker while not inherently unsafe is technically wrong, and could eventually cause a failure of the bus stab it's connected to.

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Old 12-15-2012, 07:33 PM   #3
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


Here is a photo, thanks for the advice!
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:57 PM   #4
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


Tandem breakers are allowed where the breaker space has a ----------------- in that diagram appears to be the 10th row, and 12-15th row
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:02 PM   #5
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


Thanks, Techy, good catch. The tandems are not installed in the right locations AND the GE breaker needs to go .

The MH breakers still bother me, I can't find any literature that says they are ok for this panel - but given the other link that I posted I guess it should be OK. I might call Siemens on Monday to see if they can give me any more info. Do you know if there are any compatibility matrices out there?

Looks like I'll be calling back the electricians. Glad I didn't pay them yet!

Chris
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdavia View Post
Thanks, Techy, good catch. The tandems are not installed in the right locations AND the GE breaker needs to go .

The MH breakers still bother me, I can't find any literature that says they are ok for this panel - but given the other link that I posted I guess it should be OK. I might call Siemens on Monday to see if they can give me any more info. Do you know if there are any compatibility matrices out there?

Looks like I'll be calling back the electricians. Glad I didn't pay them yet!

Chris
The Ge has two go, the mh are ok, and tandems have to be moved.
If this being inspected than the inspector would have(should) picked it up. Also if it is being inspected never give any contactor full payment untill final inspection approval
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:21 AM   #7
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


Many contracts are written so that final inspection is not needed for payment to be made. This is because a customer could put off having the work inspected for a long time before having to pay.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjdavia View Post

The MH breakers still bother me, I can't find any literature that says they are ok for this panel - but given the other link that I posted I guess it should be OK. I might call Siemens on Monday to see if they can give me any more info. Do you know if there are any compatibility matrices out there?
You are WAY over thinking this.

The GE's are not a big deal, but are technically no correct for that panel.
Just have them install BR breakers and be done with it. BR are the most common breaker around as they are pretty much the final incarnation of all this listed.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:57 AM   #9
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


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Many contracts are written so that final inspection is not needed for payment to be made. This is because a customer could put off having the work inspected for a long time before having to pay.
How could the customer put off inspection when it's the electrician that should be pulling the permits.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:05 AM   #10
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


In my area, Master Electricians are the only people that can pull electrical permits. When the EC calls to confirm (with the customer) that somebody will be available to let the inspector in, they won't "know their schedule", will be out of town, have company in from out of town, not answer the phone. Then if you do get a time nailed down, they will just not let the inspector in or leave. There are multiple ways.

In other parts of the country homeowners can pull permits. In this case I do not see any way an electrical contractor would wait till the permit has been inspected and closed to receive payment.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:53 AM   #11
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


Interesting, getting a permit was never even brought up. Thanks for the advice.
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:53 AM   #12
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Interesting, getting a permit was never even brought up. Thanks for the advice.
He did a service change without a permit/inspections???
Or was it just a panel change?
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:58 AM   #13
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He had a generator installed Speedy. But that wouldn't disqualify the need for a permit.

Slightly off topic: I can't imagine the number of illegally installed generators that are being put in on the east coast right now. If I were a lineman in that area, I would have to think about moving into another line of work. Especially when New Jersey has waived permit fees.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
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He had a generator installed Speedy.
Oh yeah. Duh.

How quickly I forget once the original post drifts up to the top.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:31 AM   #15
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Compatible Circuit breakers?


Quote:
Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
He had a generator installed Speedy. But that wouldn't disqualify the need for a permit.

Slightly off topic: I can't imagine the number of illegally installed generators that are being put in on the east coast right now. If I were a lineman in that area, I would have to think about moving into another line of work. Especially when New Jersey has waived permit fees.
The permit fees have only been waived for replacing or repairing electrical services.
All other work require permits. I have had to get many. Also in NJ final payment is not required until final inspection.


Last edited by NJMarine; 12-16-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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