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Old 08-13-2012, 05:00 PM   #31
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Combining old wire to new


I cant stress this enough, GFCI protection is only a secondary safety device, it will never trump a properly installed EGC... (equipment grounding conductor) It is required in some areas of the NEC due to the known fact that in these areas, the EGC is most susceptible to being compromised...


A perfect example would be an outside receptacle, the odds of someone using an appliance or an extension cord with a broken ground pin is pretty reasonable.


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Old 08-15-2012, 07:50 PM   #32
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Other than the fact you have nowhere for fault current to get away. Such as a lightning strike, which will likely blow every electronic appliance you have. Or option two where you could have a pinched wire in the can and the entire frame of the light will liven up. How's that for specific examples of it not being safe?".

But the house ALREADY had all the lights in the bedrooms using this two wire ungrounded system. How is adding merely two more lights going to make a significant difference? Again, if ungrounded cables are SO dangerous then why don’t you advise your customers to IMMEDIATELY pay you big bucks to replace all their old stuff with nice new grounded romex? I doubt you will have any takers.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:54 PM   #33
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But the house ALREADY had all the lights in the bedrooms using this two wire ungrounded system. How is adding merely two more lights going to make a significant difference? Again, if ungrounded cables are SO dangerous then why don’t you advise your customers to IMMEDIATELY pay you big bucks to replace all their old stuff with nice new grounded romex? I doubt you will have any takers.
Because we know its a safety issue, and continuing that type of wiring is just not acceptable.... Look, just live with your shoddy work and be done with it, stop trying to get someone to agree with your unprofessional, hack type work.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:54 PM   #34
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Because, its very hard to get someone to remove something that has been previously installed, but its really easy to require that new work is done to today's code.

What you have done isn't the end of the world, but when someone comes here to ask professionals questions, gets advice, and says screw you, I'm going to do it anyway, its a slap in the face.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:55 PM   #35
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Cossack, the NEC is clear that ungrounded circuits are not to be extended. It does not matter that places had or have 2 wire systems still in use. The rules changed and need to be followed. New installations need to follow the edition of the code that has been adopted, not a past version.

My parents safely drove cars without airbags, that doesn't mean that they can buy a new car without them.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:56 PM   #36
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This has to be the worst thread ever... Should be a sticky for what NOT to look for here....
I never asked “what does the code say about…..” This is a DIY forum. All that is necessary would have been for you or any of the other electricians to say “what you want to do is not code, but yes you can combine 12 gauge cable with 14.” That is all I asked, and it is all that I needed.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:59 PM   #37
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I never asked “what does the code say about…..” This is a DIY forum. All that is necessary would have been for you or any of the other electricians to say “what you want to do is not code, but yes you can combine 12 gauge cable with 14.” That is all I asked, and it is all that I needed.
We could tell people to do many non compliant things, but we aren't in the habit of trying to hurt people.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:00 PM   #38
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I never asked “what does the code say about…..” This is a DIY forum. All that is necessary would have been for you or any of the other electricians to say “what you want to do is not code, but yes you can combine 12 gauge cable with 14.” That is all I asked, and it is all that I needed.
Why did you even ask that question? You certainly didnt have any issues with the other violation....
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:01 PM   #39
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What you have done isn't the end of the world, but when someone comes here to ask professionals questions, gets advice, and says screw you, I'm going to do it anyway, its a slap in the face.


Reread my posts. I never said anything close to “screw you”. You have helped me in the past, so I would never do that. My main point was can 14 and 12 be joined, NOT is continuing ungrounded wire against code. As you said, what I did is NOT “the end of the world”, and I bet there are many electricians who have done the same.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:01 PM   #40
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Yes you did, you purposely didn't follow our advice because obviously you know better.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:02 PM   #41
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Reread my posts. I never said anything close to “screw you”. You have helped me in the past, so I would never do that. My main point was can 14 and 12 be joined, NOT is continuing ungrounded wire against code. As you said, what I did is NOT “the end of the world”, and I bet there are many electricians who have done the same.
Not if they actually carry insurance... and are a legit business, that would just be stupid.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:02 PM   #42
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Reread my posts. I never said anything close to “screw you”. You have helped me in the past, so I would never do that. My main point was can 14 and 12 be joined, NOT is continuing ungrounded wire against code. As you said, what I did is NOT “the end of the world”, and I bet there are many electricians who have done the same.
I'm sure there are, but they are hacks, and I hope they have good insurance when someone gets hurt.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:05 PM   #43
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Why did you even ask that question? You certainly didnt have any issues with the other violation....


Because joining 14 to 12 is something I am adding. The ungrounded cable is something that has been there probably since the 50s or 60s, so no I am not worried about it. Your comments about my work being “shoddy” or unsafe have no merit.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:06 PM   #44
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Cossack

I am not an electrician but i only give code compliant advice here too.

my house when i bought it had all kinds of extensions of ungrounded work, open splices and electric tape all over. my first two years of ownership i added a receptacle to an ungrounded circuit for a computer (no clamps, no wire nuts). i also swapped all the 2 prong ungrounded receptacles for 3 prong with no gfci protection.

everything worked fine and never had a problem.

then i got religion in 2010, learned the proper way to do things and rewired everything to code. when i tore out the existing and my own hack work i couldnt believe i was willing to put my family and house at risk with that sh*t.

i admire every electician on this forum and their adherence to code is a plus.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:08 PM   #45
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Your comments about my work being “shoddy” or unsafe have no merit.
So, if your work isn't shoddy or unsafe, why does the NEC prohibit electricians from doing what you did?

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