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Old 08-21-2012, 09:26 AM   #136
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Combining old wire to new


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Originally Posted by AndrewF View Post
Is the OP trying to get anyone to notice he wants to splice in a lower gauge wire on an existing circuit too?

While he did say he would swap the breaker to a 15amp from a 20amp, but down the road, someone would see that 12 in the panel and think, oh, I can bump it to a 20amp....and never know about the extended 14/2 wire that was added on?

I guess if he switched the breaker to 15amp (assuming it was 12/2 with ground) then the answer would have been yes he could mate the 14/2 (with ground) to the 12/2 (with ground)
Andrew, no professional would swap out a 15 amp breaker on a 20 amp rated circuit without knowing it was safe to do so.

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Old 08-25-2012, 03:18 PM   #137
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Combining old wire to new


I have a similiar situation to cossack, the part of the House I am in is 200 years old, there are not even framed walls on the exterior just Brick, a layer of Cement and then plaster.

Anyways long story short, I pretty much did what Cossack is describing, took out the original outlet which was 2 prong only,installed 3 grounded outlets off that wire, and ran wire for 2 lights in 2 separate closets.

I read most of this thread so I already know whats coming my way, But I would like ideas on getting this right.The Room right now only gets used a few days a year as its a guest room in a Widows House, but down the road it could become an everyday room for a Kid...sooooo.

Is it possible to take a Ground off of another Circuit? and ground it that way? I am always hearing that "Ground is Ground" but I am sure some of you will scoff at that.

Worse case scenario is just nut off the original wires and everything I installed will be dead, or run a new line to the panel box which wont be easy or cheap.
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:56 PM   #138
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Combining old wire to new


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I have a similiar situation to cossack, the part of the House I am in is 200 years old, there are not even framed walls on the exterior just Brick, a layer of Cement and then plaster.

Anyways long story short, I pretty much did what Cossack is describing, took out the original outlet which was 2 prong only,installed 3 grounded outlets off that wire, and ran wire for 2 lights in 2 separate closets.

I read most of this thread so I already know whats coming my way,

Don’t let these guys bully you. None of them have produced one bit of evidence to show how what I did is any more dangerous than what is already in millions of homes. The house to the left, right, and across the street are all still 100% on ungrounded two wires. My first house was built in the 1800s and it lasted for years on knob and tube wiring. Then in the 40s (not sure when two wire was invented)or so it looks like someone replaced all that with two wire ungrounded cable. That stuff was wrapped in cloth and some of it had singe marks on it. I replaced it all with new romex. That job took me many hours and was A LOT of trouble. Plaster had to be torn out and replaced. Cables had to be fished through tight spaces. It went on and on.

This is precisely why these “pros” want to be sure people totally replace any new wire. It generates them more billable hours. Don’t be fooled. The dirty secret they are not telling is that in their own homes they would do the same thing I did. They will NEVER admit that here. You do what you want….it’s your time and money.
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Old 08-25-2012, 04:17 PM   #139
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This guy needs to be banned for encouraging posters to willfully violate code.
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:43 PM   #140
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Combining old wire to new


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Don’t let these guys bully you. None of them have produced one bit of evidence to show how what I did is any more dangerous than what is already in millions of homes. The house to the left, right, and across the street are all still 100% on ungrounded two wires. My first house was built in the 1800s and it lasted for years on knob and tube wiring. Then in the 40s (not sure when two wire was invented)or so it looks like someone replaced all that with two wire ungrounded cable. That stuff was wrapped in cloth and some of it had singe marks on it. I replaced it all with new romex. That job took me many hours and was A LOT of trouble. Plaster had to be torn out and replaced. Cables had to be fished through tight spaces. It went on and on.

This is precisely why these “pros” want to be sure people totally replace any new wire. It generates them more billable hours. Don’t be fooled. The dirty secret they are not telling is that in their own homes they would do the same thing I did. They will NEVER admit that here. You do what you want….it’s your time and money.
We have already explained the dangers, you just refuse to listen... You refuse to admit that here....
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Old 08-25-2012, 06:59 PM   #141
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Combining old wire to new


If this guy thinks that we are just saying this stuff for more billable hours, can he explain why we are all here giving advice, on a daily basis, for free?
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:38 PM   #142
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Combining old wire to new


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Originally Posted by peterpuckfan View Post
I have a similiar situation to cossack, the part of the House I am in is 200 years old, there are not even framed walls on the exterior just Brick, a layer of Cement and then plaster.

Anyways long story short, I pretty much did what Cossack is describing, took out the original outlet which was 2 prong only,installed 3 grounded outlets off that wire, and ran wire for 2 lights in 2 separate closets.

I read most of this thread so I already know whats coming my way, But I would like ideas on getting this right.The Room right now only gets used a few days a year as its a guest room in a Widows House, but down the road it could become an everyday room for a Kid...sooooo.

Is it possible to take a Ground off of another Circuit? and ground it that way? I am always hearing that "Ground is Ground" but I am sure some of you will scoff at that.

Worse case scenario is just nut off the original wires and everything I installed will be dead, or run a new line to the panel box which wont be easy or cheap.
quite the contrary, many are willing to help someone wanting to do things the right way. i do believe you can pull a ground off another circuit. I know whats allowed in my area for this but unless you live in canada my advice is useless to you, best to wait for an nec expert to show up. A location will also help greatly.
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Old 08-25-2012, 07:40 PM   #143
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Combining old wire to new


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If this guy thinks that we are just saying this stuff for more billable hours, can he explain why we are all here giving advice, on a daily basis, for free?
Well I for one appreciate the advice.
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:10 PM   #144
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quite the contrary, many are willing to help someone wanting to do things the right way. i do believe you can pull a ground off another circuit. I know whats allowed in my area for this but unless you live in canada my advice is useless to you, best to wait for an nec expert to show up. A location will also help greatly.
I am in Western NY..I will investigate whether any of the other wires in the ceiling crawl space can be tapped off of and then I will terminate the orignal wire....but if not, can I tap off the ground from the ceiling fan which is on a seperate and I assume grounded circuit.

Guess I am asking the pros here.

The only problem I forsee witht that is, some day someone might say, hmmm whats this extra ground wire for and disconnect it, and then its back to square one.

Just so I know, can you go from 14-2 to 12-2 or only the opposite?
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Old 08-25-2012, 10:13 PM   #145
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Combining old wire to new


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Just so I know, can you go from 14-2 to 12-2 or only the opposite?
You can use any wire size you wish, it just has to be protected properly with the correct breaker size.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:16 AM   #146
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The grounding conductor needs to go back to the panel where the circuit originates or to and accessible point on the grounding equipment conductor. Grabbing a ground from a nearby circuit is not compliant.
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Old 08-26-2012, 11:54 AM   #147
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The grounding conductor needs to go back to the panel where the circuit originates or to and accessible point on the grounding equipment conductor. Grabbing a ground from a nearby circuit is not compliant.
Thanks for the help guys,

I guess if I can go from 14-2 to 12-2, I will just terminate the original wire, and tap off one of the other grounded circuits in the crawl space..I will also see tomorrow if I can just run a direct wire to the box on its own breaker.If I can, what size Breaker should I use for 2 Closet ceiling lights with one 40 watt bulb each, and also feeding 3 new outlets?
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:30 PM   #148
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Combining old wire to new


15a or 20a. Your choice. There's some whacky afci rules in the states so you may need an afci breaker.
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:56 PM   #149
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Combining old wire to new


I have to wonder why he refuses to answer my previous question ... if he understands the difference between grounded and ungrounded wiring?

All he has mentioned is that all the millions of houses would have burned down by now if ungrounded wiring was dangerous.

BURN DOWN ?? This tells me he doesn't understand what we are telling him.

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