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Old 08-12-2012, 11:28 AM   #1
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Combining old wire to new


Now I have a 20 amp breaker at the circuit box that has older two wire, ie black and white no ground. This cable looks to be in good shape. This services several overhead lights in bedrooms. I need to tie into this to create overhead lights in the bathroom and hallway. Can I replace the 20 amp breaker with a 15 amp breaker, and then use 14-2 cable to connect the bathroom and hall lighting? I do not know if the present older cable is 12 or 14. I assume it is 12 since it has been tied into this 20 amp breaker before I bought the house.

Thank you to all who help.

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Old 08-12-2012, 11:32 AM   #2
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Combining old wire to new


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Now I have a 20 amp breaker at the circuit box that has older two wire, ie black and white no ground. This cable looks to be in good shape. This services several overhead lights in bedrooms. I need to tie into this to create overhead lights in the bathroom and hallway. Can I replace the 20 amp breaker with a 15 amp breaker, and then use 14-2 cable to connect the bathroom and hall lighting? I do not know if the present older cable is 12 or 14. I assume it is 12 since it has been tied into this 20 amp breaker before I bought the house.

Thank you to all who help.
First things first, you have to verify that the existing wiring method qualifies for a grounding conductor, because you can't extend a non grounding circuit....

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Old 08-12-2012, 11:46 AM   #3
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Combining old wire to new


I know that you are adhering to code by saying I cannot extend the non-grounding circuit. However, I am not an electrician and I just want to make this work as simple as possible. Can I just replace the 20 amp switch with a 15 amp and add the 14-2 so I can get this job done and all is safe? My main concern is combining the 14-2 with what I think is 12. I think I have read that this can be done safely. I will of course combine them in a box.

I need to complete this job today.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:48 AM   #4
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Combining old wire to new


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I know that you are adhering to code by saying I cannot extend the non-grounding circuit. However, I am not an electrician and I just want to make this work as simple as possible. Can I just replace the 20 amp switch with a 15 amp and add the 14-2 so I can get this job done and all is safe? My main concern is combining the 14-2 with what I think is 12. I think I have read that this can be done safely. I will of course combine them in a box.

I need to complete this job today.

Last I knew, proper grounding is a safety issue. Im sorry your concerns are not the same as mine. This is the exact type of mentality that i cannot stand.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:50 AM   #5
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We only give code certified advice here. NO you can not extend a non grounded circuit. Replace it all or install a new circuit.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:57 AM   #6
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Combining old wire to new


I will explain further. I bought this house in foreclosure and the prior owner already ran 14-2 through the walls, ceiling, and attic. I know the 14-2 should not be paired with the current 20 amp switch at the circuit breaker. I just want to save time fishing in new lines. If I change the breaker to a 15 amp and connect the 14-2 the prior owner has already installed I am done with this in under an hour.

If you don't want to give non code advice just tell me if it is okay to combine 14-2 with 12 if the 12 is connected to a 15 amp switch.

Last edited by Cossack; 08-12-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:59 AM   #7
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You cannot extend an ungrounded circuit. There is no exception that states you can do it if it cuts X amount of time off.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:01 PM   #8
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Combining old wire to new


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cossack View Post
Now I have a 20 amp breaker at the circuit box that has older two wire, ie black and white no ground. This cable looks to be in good shape. This services several overhead lights in bedrooms. I need to tie into this to create overhead lights in the bathroom and hallway. Can I replace the 20 amp breaker with a 15 amp breaker, and then use 14-2 cable to connect the bathroom and hall lighting? I do not know if the present older cable is 12 or 14. I assume it is 12 since it has been tied into this 20 amp breaker before I bought the house.

Thank you to all who help.
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I will explain further. I bought this house in foreclosure and the prior owner already ran 14-2 through the walls, ceiling, and attic. I know the 14-2 should not be paired with the current 20 amp switch at the circuit breaker. I just want to save time fishing in new lines. If I change the breaker to a 15 amp and connect the 14-2 the prior owner has already installed I am done with this in under an hour.

If you don't want to give non code advice just tell me if it is okay to combine 14-2 with 12 if the 12 is connected to a 15 amp switch.
I see what you are doing there...
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:07 PM   #9
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Combining old wire to new


Cmon k_buz, we all know you have short-term memory

You can replace the 20amp with a 15.
If you have access to newer 14/2 wire PLUS Ground in the attic, maybe you can come off of that....maybe.
There is no "side-stepping" grounds. They are there for yours and others safety.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:20 PM   #10
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Combining old wire to new


I did not want to make this a debate, but MANY old houses have the old two wire non –grounded cable. One house I bought has had it since 1925 and it is still standing. Does code require that two wire non grounded cables be REMOVED? I don’t think so! In fact I know of some houses that still have knob and tube. I would not recommend that, but I do not think what I want to do is out of line.

Thank you Mister Z for being truly helpful. As I said, the main thing I wanted to know is if 14 can be combined with 12. My question was not really about the grounding aspects.
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Old 08-12-2012, 12:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cossack
I did not want to make this a debate, but MANY old houses have the old two wire non –grounded cable. One house I bought has had it since 1925 and it is still standing. Does code require that two wire non grounded cables be REMOVED? I don’t think so! In fact I know of some houses that still have knob and tube. I would not recommend that, but I do not think what I want to do is out of line.

Thank you Mister Z for being truly helpful. As I said, the main thing I wanted to know is if 14 can be combined with 12. My question was not really about the grounding aspects.
You can not change the 20 amp breaker to a 15amp if the wire is 12gauge. And then add 14 gauge after other 12 wire. You will need to add 14 wire as a pig tail to the 12 wire in the panel. Or just continue to just use 12 wire if that's what you want to do. But try to find a grounded circuit if u want to keep adding
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:03 PM   #12
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You can not change the 20 amp breaker to a 15amp if the wire is 12gauge.
Sure you can.... but that's not the issue with this thread.


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. You will need to add 14 wire as a pig tail to the 12 wire in the panel.
Why?


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But try to find a grounded circuit if u want to keep adding
I will add that, he has no CHOICE but to find a grounded circuit.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:05 PM   #13
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Combining old wire to new


[QUOTE=Cossack;986828]I did not want to make this a debate, but MANY old houses have the old two wire non –grounded cable. One house I bought has had it since 1925 and it is still standing. Does code require that two wire non grounded cables be REMOVED? I don’t think so! In fact I know of some houses that still have knob and tube. I would not recommend that, but I do not think what I want to do is out of line.

But it is... you just dont understand what it is you are doing.


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My question was not really about the grounding aspects.

Scary... you ask for help but reject the info that is in safety aspect...
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:16 PM   #14
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But it is... you just dont understand what it is you are doing.
Again, the code does NOT require the immediate removal of all old 2 wire non-grounded cable. Is that not true? If the non-grounded stuff was so terrible there would be a nationwide campaign to tear it all out. Therefore your alarm is clearly unwarranted. I am just "extending" what has already been there for years.

You and the other respondents to this thread are all capable, knowledgeable, intelligent men. The code was NOT given to the patron saint of electricians by God on some mountain. Use common sense.

Last edited by Cossack; 08-12-2012 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 08-12-2012, 01:17 PM   #15
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Again, the code does NOT require the immediate removal of all old 2 wire non-grounded cable. Is that not true? If the non-grounded stuff was so terrible there would be a nationwide campaign to tear it all out. Therefore your alarm is clearly unwarranted.

You and the other respondents to this thread are all capable, knowledgeable, intelligent men. The code was NOT given to the patron saint of electricians by God on some mountain. Use common sense.
I earned my license... and were not talking about REMOVING existing wiring, were talking about ADDING to it...

Not sure why you are having an issue with this... it is VERY simple. My last comment by the way, do whatever you wish.


Last edited by stickboy1375; 08-12-2012 at 01:20 PM.
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