Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-21-2009, 08:09 PM   #16
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,361
Share |
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
try 110.11 but there are others.
Nope. I ain't buying that one. Latex paint is not a "deteriorating agent"

I've seen plenty of installations where exposed romex was painted over to match the wall, and no evidence of any deterioration or corrosion was present.

Guess again.

__________________
-KB

Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!!
kbsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 08:14 PM   #17
Household Handyman
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albany, Ga.
Posts: 2,246
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


As far as "Romex" being any coloring: my house was built in '86, I happen to know the contractor who built the house for the "then" home-buyers. The electrical contractor on the job, who I happen to also know, used 12-2 with a light blue color for all of the "feed" wiring in this house. All of the "load" side ran with 12-2 has white outer insulation. This makes it much easier to start tracing a wire when necessary. I also have noticed that "Romex" has been different colors according to wire gauge. Actually I like this approach whether code yet or not. Thanks, David
Thurman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 08:21 PM   #18
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
Nope. I ain't buying that one. Latex paint is not a "deteriorating agent"

I've seen plenty of installations where exposed romex was painted over to match the wall, and no evidence of any deterioration or corrosion was present.

Guess again.
PROVE IT.

Prove that the paint did not damage or that it was listed for the purpose.

and your statement is exactly what I was talking about. the old "look at it, it is just fine"

and who said it was latex?

have you ever megged a wire that looked fine but read crap on the tester? I have.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 08:24 PM   #19
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


and if you want something that requires you to prove it is acceptable, read 300.6(C)(2)

and if you want an obscure argument that I am not even going to bother looking for a cite for; adding paint to the sheathing alters the ability of the wire and sheathing to shed heat so it can cause heat build up which does have a deleterious effect on the insulation. How much of a problem? I couldn't tell you because I do not paint wire.

Last edited by nap; 12-21-2009 at 08:30 PM.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 09:27 PM   #20
Electrician's Helper
 
Pudge565's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 202
Send a message via AIM to Pudge565
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


Don't you also have to be able to read the print on the sheath?
__________________
There is no such thing as a stupid question, but there is such a thing as an ignorant person, with a question, trying to learn.
Pudge565 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 09:32 PM   #21
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


Not sure. What if it were printed on with ink and it wore off. Would you have to go and write it back on?
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 09:58 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


I think the older cable it is "embossed" into the cable
Newer stuff is printed on...& can wear off
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2009, 11:06 PM   #23
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,361
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
PROVE IT.

Prove that the paint did not damage or that it was listed for the purpose....
The references you provided have nothing to do with painting the outer sheath of a cable. 300.6(C)(2) deals with materials installed in adverse ambient environmental conditions, such as continued exposure to chemicals, solvents, etc. I don't believe this is intended to prevent one from painting the outer sheath for aesthetic purposes.

The Code is permissive in nature, that is unless something is specifically prohibited, many things not mentioned are permitted.

Painting is mentioned in the Code, in fact this is allowable when re-identifying conductors at termination points. It would seem illogical to allow painting of individual conductors while prohibiting painting of an outer sheath.

But since nothing I can say here will change your mind without absolute "proof" I will submit to the following challenge:

I have sent an inquiry to a major manufacturer of type NM-B cable asking specifically whether painting the outer sheath of their cable would violate any listings or Codes. If they respond that this is OK, they you will publically eat CROW.

If they tell me that this should not be done, I will concede.

Deal?
__________________
-KB

Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!!
kbsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2009, 12:48 AM   #24
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


actually, the title of the section is:

Protection against corrosion and deterioration.

C is for non-metallic equipment (specifically lists cable with non-metallic outer jacket)

and 2 is shown below. Painting the cable would expose it to chemicals, more specifically, solvents so, to follow the remainder of the section, the cable must be listed for such use.

It does not give any time limitation such as "continuous" as you suggest.






Quote:
300.6(C)(2) deals with materials installed in adverse ambient environmental conditions, such as continued exposure to chemicals, solvents, etc. I don't believe this is intended to prevent one from painting the outer sheath for aesthetic purposes.
Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?-nm1.jpg

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?-nm2.jpg



I have never seen the sheathing on NM to be listed to be resistant to any chemicals in paint.

those "materials" if you will read the section, do refer to "materials". Look that up in the definitions.


and to your section about stating that painting is ok to remark a color. Sure, as long as the paint used is approved for use on that type of material. I can provide you with paint that will literally melt the insulation on the wire but by your argument, it would be ok to use that.

and now you are going to come back with the argument that; come on now. You have to use common sense. Well, do you know for a fact which paints will or will not harm the sheathing on NM? I know I don't so unless you can support your belief that it won't, then it is not ok to use it.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 09:33 PM   #25
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,361
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


AS PROMISED, here is the text of my message to SouthWire concerning the painting of the outer sheath of type NM cable:


Quote:
Message: I would like to know if there is anything that would prevent one from painting the outer sheath of type NM-B cable. Would this violate any of your listings or code requirements?
The response I received is:

Quote:
The only thing that it would violate is the print legend on the cable, which is part of the listing.
Regards,
Paul White
Southwire
So there you have it. You are correct in that covering the printing on the outer sheath violates the listing. However, if one were to install the cable face down (and not paint that part), and then paint the back of the sheath, you would have a nice finished appearance without violating the listing of the cable.

I still don't buy your arguments about using highly corrosive paints, solvents, etc, when one can use something as simple as LATEX paint on romex.

What is it with you and your obsession with not being able to paint anything?
__________________
-KB

Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!!
kbsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 10:22 PM   #26
retired elect/hvac/plumb
 
plummen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: south east of omaha/The island of misfit contractors
Posts: 2,889
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
actually, the title of the section is:

Protection against corrosion and deterioration.

C is for non-metallic equipment (specifically lists cable with non-metallic outer jacket)

and 2 is shown below. Painting the cable would expose it to chemicals, more specifically, solvents so, to follow the remainder of the section, the cable must be listed for such use.

It does not give any time limitation such as "continuous" as you suggest.







Attachment 15726

Attachment 15727



I have never seen the sheathing on NM to be listed to be resistant to any chemicals in paint.

those "materials" if you will read the section, do refer to "materials". Look that up in the definitions.


and to your section about stating that painting is ok to remark a color. Sure, as long as the paint used is approved for use on that type of material. I can provide you with paint that will literally melt the insulation on the wire but by your argument, it would be ok to use that.

and now you are going to come back with the argument that; come on now. You have to use common sense. Well, do you know for a fact which paints will or will not harm the sheathing on NM? I know I don't so unless you can support your belief that it won't, then it is not ok to use it.
you must of had a hell of a time growing up huh?
plummen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2010, 10:59 PM   #27
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Default

Color sheath on Romex/NM cable?


Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
AS PROMISED, here is the text of my message to SouthWire concerning the painting of the outer sheath of type NM cable:




The response I received is:



So there you have it. You are correct in that covering the printing on the outer sheath violates the listing. However, if one were to install the cable face down (and not paint that part), and then paint the back of the sheath, you would have a nice finished appearance without violating the listing of the cable.

I still don't buy your arguments about using highly corrosive paints, solvents, etc, when one can use something as simple as LATEX paint on romex.

What is it with you and your obsession with not being able to paint anything?

Hey, score one for the anal guy.




my problem with painting things is as I read it, it is contrary to the code. I suggest your response from southwire was a bit of a blow off. You never mentioned what type of paint and I can assure you, I can find paint that would dissolve the outer sheath of NM. That, obviously, is not code compliant.

and to your "what's wrong with latex" position: you are the one limiting it to latex. The question was "is it ok to paint NM" You are limiting it to latex. Even in a house, not all paint is latex.

nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Advice Old Metal NM Cable Anchors bltglt507 Electrical 15 12-18-2009 04:31 PM
Cable question tommy_vercetti Home Theater 15 09-26-2009 09:10 AM
Underground service entrance cable requirements. kgt55 Electrical 9 06-22-2009 06:55 AM
Satellite vs. cable coaxial types? Badfish740 Home Theater 6 02-17-2009 11:00 AM
Coaxial Cable Question bahaisamurai Home Theater 9 08-08-2007 02:54 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.