Circuitry plan for small house

Jim Port · 03-11-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnstownFlood

Olguy, you said, "smoke det's should be on a afci ckt." Are you able to cite the code reference? What is the logic here, with a hard-wired device like a smoke?

Everything I am finding says receps are to be afci-protected, but there is no mention of smoke alarms. It's all about those cords, right?

You will find this in 210.12(B). See my explaination to DM above.

DangerMouse · 03-11-2011, 08:29 AM

Oh great.... I'm just about ready to get my final elec. inspection....
.....watch the guy NOW say I need to rewire the whole mess because they changed the rules mid-stream.... LOL

DM

SD515 · 03-11-2011, 08:42 AM

Don't worry DM, the only thing you'll have to do is use a AFCI breaker for your smokey circuit. Smokeys don't have to be tied into another circuit, they can be on their own.

DangerMouse · 03-11-2011, 09:02 AM

I hope he doesn't say that.... it's already been green-stickered for the rough-in and the smokes were powered up already too.
I simply can't afford the ridiculously high cost of another AFCI.

DM

oleguy74 · 03-11-2011, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

That does not work if there are good batteries in the smoke detectors....

DM

on dual voltage detecters loss of battery/ac they will beep.at least supposed to.

HouseHelper · 03-11-2011, 11:25 AM

Some other changes necessary:
1.You need at least two 20A circuits serving the kitchen countertop; the microwave circuit doesn't count if it is dedicated.
2. The lights and receptacles in the dining room cannot share the same circuit; the receptacles must be either a separate circuit or part of one of the kitchen small appliance circuits.

Check with your local jurisdiction about what code cycle is being used and what local amendments may be in force. This could affect the number of AFCI circuits required.

I also would recommend separating receptacle and lighting circuits where possible and using 14ga NM for the lighting circuits. You will find out why after you tackle a few multi-gang switches.

JohnstownFlood · 03-11-2011, 06:11 PM

Househelper: Thks!

The c'top recep in kitchen serving MW is not dedicated. The MW, if there is one, will be a countertop model. The plan has four total receps above counter, and one at island. Three of the four and the one in island planned for one circuit with GFCI breaker, the fourth above-counter recep (where one might deploy a countertop appliance such as a MW) will be on its own circuit, with a GFCI recep.

Thks for the caution about the wiring for lighting versus for receps.

I had diagrammed out six circuits protected with AFCI breakers, all or most having both receps and lighting. I re-diagrammed, still using six circuits, to split receps from lights-and-smokes.

The five smokes, two down and three up, are combined in a lighting circuit, all up, with seven lights. I read a recommendation to daisy-chain the smokes with 14-3, and the red will do the interconnect. Can this work with the smokes combined with the lighting? Edit: This combo of all the lights on top floor, going with all the smokes on all floors, is exactly what was done by the electrical contractor that wired my own house. All the smokes in the house are interconnected.

The plan now looks like the pic, here. State code (2010) applies, into which is rolled pretty much what NEC 2008 says.

Speedy Petey · 03-12-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnstownFlood

And hey, isn't this forum called DIY?

Well, you posted this exact same thing over on ContractorTalk.com.
So which is it, are you a contractor or a DIY'er?

http://www.contractortalk.com/f77/pl...comment-94507/

SD515 · 03-12-2011, 08:19 AM

Your idea of running the smokes off the lighting circuit is ok. You run 14/3 between all the smokes stations, like you mentioned, using the red as the interconnect, but use 14/2 to bring power into the first smokey. The red isn't needed in that part of the circuit.

a7ecorsair · 03-12-2011, 08:53 AM

The exterior receptacles need to be GFCI with TR WR rated. What will be in the crawl space, anything?
What will be heating the upper and lower levels? Baseboard heaters? If so, these circuits are considered continuous loads have to be planned at 80% so the maximum wattage is 3840 per 20 amp circuit.

JohnstownFlood · 03-12-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a7ecorsair

The exterior receptacles need to be GFCI with TR WR rated. What will be in the crawl space, anything?
What will be heating the upper and lower levels? Baseboard heaters? If so, these circuits are considered continuous loads have to be planned at 80% so the maximum wattage is 3840 per 20 amp circuit.

1. The electrical drawings specify outdoor receps as weatherproof with GFCI.

2. Two 38g electric water heaters are in the crawlspace, and there is a fluorescent light there, switched in the closet that has the hatch access. I have examined our state code, into which has been patched some but not all of NEC 2008, and cannot find any requirement that we place a recep there. The light that is there is on an AFCI circuit, part of some mainfloor lighting.

3. Electric baseboard heating is used on main floor and upper floor, with a 240V circuit for each floor. Main floor heat breaker is 15A and upper is 20A, both sized per the 80 percent max rule.

Thanks for your input.

a7ecorsair · 03-12-2011, 09:54 AM

Not sure if there is a requirement but I think it would be a good idea to have one GFCI in the crawl space. My new house has a crawl space with a furnace and water heater. If something needs service, a convenient receptacle is always nice to have.

JohnstownFlood · 03-12-2011, 10:48 AM

I've thought of that, but as I cannot find a requirement for it. There is a GFCI recep very near the closet and hatch door to the crawlspace, and if all those cordless tools won't do and someone needs corded power there, it can be run from the recep. If no recep gets put down there, sign will be put in closet above hatch, "IF POWER EXTENSION CORD NEEDED IN CRAWLSPACE, PLUG INTO ISLAND RECEPTACLE ONLY!!"

Will recheck code again next week, discuss with inspector, and check out a recent job with crawlspace just about like this one, to see what got done there. Pretty sure no receps were placed there.

SD515 · 03-12-2011, 10:57 AM

Not a requirement to have a recept in crawl space....but it's not a bad idea.

03-11-2011, 08:29 AM	#17
DangerMouse the Musigician Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 10,404	Circuitry plan for small house Oh great.... I'm just about ready to get my final elec. inspection.... .....watch the guy NOW say I need to rewire the whole mess because they changed the rules mid-stream.... LOL DM __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Click To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. to see some of my original magic tricks and trick boxes!

03-11-2011, 08:42 AM	#18
SD515 Electrician Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Near Jackson Michigan Area Posts: 1,449	Circuitry plan for small house Don't worry DM, the only thing you'll have to do is use a AFCI breaker for your smokey circuit. Smokeys don't have to be tied into another circuit, they can be on their own. __________________ Kyle Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should

03-11-2011, 09:02 AM	#19
DangerMouse the Musigician Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: I'm right here! Posts: 10,404	Circuitry plan for small house I hope he doesn't say that.... it's already been green-stickered for the rough-in and the smokes were powered up already too. I simply can't afford the ridiculously high cost of another AFCI. DM __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Click To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. to see some of my original magic tricks and trick boxes!

03-11-2011, 11:25 AM	#21
HouseHelper Licensed Pro Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SC Posts: 1,439	Circuitry plan for small house Some other changes necessary: 1.You need at least two 20A circuits serving the kitchen countertop; the microwave circuit doesn't count if it is dedicated. 2. The lights and receptacles in the dining room cannot share the same circuit; the receptacles must be either a separate circuit or part of one of the kitchen small appliance circuits. Check with your local jurisdiction about what code cycle is being used and what local amendments may be in force. This could affect the number of AFCI circuits required. I also would recommend separating receptacle and lighting circuits where possible and using 14ga NM for the lighting circuits. You will find out why after you tackle a few multi-gang switches. __________________ "Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne

03-11-2011, 06:11 PM	#22
JohnstownFlood Newbie Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 23	Circuitry plan for small house Househelper: Thks! The c'top recep in kitchen serving MW is not dedicated. The MW, if there is one, will be a countertop model. The plan has four total receps above counter, and one at island. Three of the four and the one in island planned for one circuit with GFCI breaker, the fourth above-counter recep (where one might deploy a countertop appliance such as a MW) will be on its own circuit, with a GFCI recep. Thks for the caution about the wiring for lighting versus for receps. I had diagrammed out six circuits protected with AFCI breakers, all or most having both receps and lighting. I re-diagrammed, still using six circuits, to split receps from lights-and-smokes. The five smokes, two down and three up, are combined in a lighting circuit, all up, with seven lights. I read a recommendation to daisy-chain the smokes with 14-3, and the red will do the interconnect. Can this work with the smokes combined with the lighting? Edit: This combo of all the lights on top floor, going with all the smokes on all floors, is exactly what was done by the electrical contractor that wired my own house. All the smokes in the house are interconnected. The plan now looks like the pic, here. State code (2010) applies, into which is rolled pretty much what NEC 2008 says. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by JohnstownFlood; 03-11-2011 at 07:00 PM.

Circuitry plan for small house