Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-25-2007, 11:03 AM   #1
I have gas!
 
Clutchcargo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,783
Rewards Points: 1,018
Default

Circuit configuration???


I'm working on the configuration of the circuits in my house. I'll be doing the second floor electrical shortly and I wanted to run my ideas by you guys.

I have a small 2 story 3-bed house (renovation). The second level is where all the beds are and a full bath. I'm trying to figure out how many circuits I need.

My thoughts are:
1 circuit each for the receptacles in the bedrooms (3-AFCI 15A circuits). The hall outlets would also share the circuit with the smallest bedroom.
1 circuit for the entire second floor lighting/ceiling fans and CO/smoke detectors (1-AFCI 15A circuit). Can I also put the bath lighting and exhaust fan on this circuit?
2 circuits for the bath receptacles (2-20A circuits with GFCI outlets).

That's a total of 6 circuits for the 2nd floor. Does this sound reasonable?

TIA

__________________
I tear things down and build them up.
Clutchcargo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 04:36 PM   #2
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 8,130
Rewards Points: 3,054
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Circuit configuration???


You can put the bath lights and fans on any circuit you wish.
Have enough circuits to meet all the code requirements. Most bathrooms only have one 20 map but there is no rule against two.

joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2007, 09:11 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 682
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Circuit configuration???


Could be a bit overkill, but if this is your dream home, then I would say not too far overkill, just overly practicle.

Dont forget that all the CO/Smokes in the house must interconnet, so the ones on the first floor must also be on this same AFCI protected circuit. You should run a 14-3 from smoke to smoke, and a 14-2 from the first smoke to a good place where you can split the circuit to the lights.
__________________
Master Electrician
jwhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2007, 02:21 PM   #4
I have gas!
 
Clutchcargo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,783
Rewards Points: 1,018
Default

Circuit configuration???


Thanks,
No not my dream home, but since the walls are open anyway, why not.
What is a typical configuration in new construction?

Good point about the interconnected smokes, I forgot I needed to connect basement, 1st floor, and 2nd floor together. Is there a code that specs where in the basement the smoke detector goes?

Also, I'm going to create a chase next to the chimney. The chase is going to contain 2 - 1" EMT and hydronic heating pipe. The conduit will be run from a large junction box in the basement to another one in the attic. The other conduit is for data/phone/TV. Do you see any issues going this route?

Since this will be metal conduit and j-boxes, do I need to run a ground from the panel or can I just pigtail all the grounds in the attic j-box and screw to the junction box in the attic?

TIA
__________________
I tear things down and build them up.

Last edited by Clutchcargo; 05-29-2007 at 03:45 PM.
Clutchcargo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2007, 03:42 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 88
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Circuit configuration???


For the low voltage you could use plastic (EMT?) conduit if its cheaper. Great idea about separate pipes for the high and low volt. You will be happy you did that later.

Code here (for new construction) says that each rooms recepticles' have to have their own breaker (one home run per room) so I don't think you are going too far overboard. I am jealous of your open walls. I've been trying to fish through plaster and rough cut heart (sp?) pine for months now.

You're on the right track I think. My motto is more wire is better (which works 99% of the time unless you just can't cram it all into the box).
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."
keyser soze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2007, 05:45 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 682
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Circuit configuration???


keyser, where in NC are you. I am a licenced master in NC and know of no such code as the one you stated above.

Typical number of recs on one circuit for new construction is 9-12 on one circuit. The code tells us to use a sq foot rule. measure the sq foot of the rooms, and insure that you have 3 va of electric or each sq foot. This is a bogus rule, cause you could have one 15 amp circuit with all the recs on it, and add one circuit with one rec on it and meet the rule.

as for the pipe chase you have issues with bundled cables that are a bit complex. we need to know if you are going to run romex in the conduit, or THHN. We need to know how many.

It does sound like a good idea for future. Grounding depends on the type of wiring you use, either way you should put at least one ground wire in the pipe at the time you put any circuit wiring in it.

In the mean time be sure to fire stop both conduits
__________________
Master Electrician
jwhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2007, 06:55 PM   #7
I have gas!
 
Clutchcargo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,783
Rewards Points: 1,018
Default

Circuit configuration???


I'll be running THHN between the panel and the junction box in the attic. At the junction box I'll switch over to NM to run down into the bedroom walls.

I was thinking 4 AFCI circuits = 8-14G wires.
2 20AMP circuits = 3-12g wires. If I don't need individual grounds, that's only 11 conductors. Using 2005 NEC Annex C, 1" EMT should be able to handle 35-14AWG or 26-12AWG THHN conductors before derating is needed.

Would the junction box at both ends of the EMT qualify as a firestop or do I need to stuff some insulation at each end of the EMT?

Do you have any idea if there is a code for minimum chimney clearance to the conduit?
__________________
I tear things down and build them up.

Last edited by Clutchcargo; 05-29-2007 at 06:58 PM. Reason: clarification
Clutchcargo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2007, 08:18 PM   #8
Master Electrician
 
JohnJ0906's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 332
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Circuit configuration???


Derating begins at 4 current carrying conductor. NEC 310.15(B)(2)(a)
__________________
John from Baltimore
One Day at a Time
"Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else"
"The bitterness of low quality lingers long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten"

Last edited by JohnJ0906; 05-29-2007 at 08:18 PM. Reason: spelling
JohnJ0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2007, 08:21 PM   #9
Master Electrician
 
JohnJ0906's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 332
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Circuit configuration???


To run the circuits as you have said, the 15 amp circuits (in the conduit) will need to be #12 AWG, and #10 AWG for the 20 amp circuits
__________________
John from Baltimore
One Day at a Time
"Experience is what you get when you were expecting something else"
"The bitterness of low quality lingers long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten"
JohnJ0906 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2007, 08:24 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NC
Posts: 88
Rewards Points: 75
Default

Circuit configuration???


Quote:
keyser, where in NC are you. I am a licenced master in NC and know of no such code as the one you stated above.
I'm near Asheville and I stand corrected.

I'll stop trying to tell others what code is. Everything I know is from electricians (and I only trust one that I know, now that I think about it).

Thanks for straightening me out there.
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."

Last edited by keyser soze; 05-30-2007 at 12:27 PM.
keyser soze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2007, 11:37 PM   #11
I have gas!
 
Clutchcargo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,783
Rewards Points: 1,018
Default

Circuit configuration???


Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnJ0906 View Post
Derating begins at 4 current carrying conductor. NEC 310.15(B)(2)(a)
Wow, thanks John. Because of the AFCI breakers, I've got 10 current carrying conductors, which means I have to derate by 50%. I might have to rethink this.
__________________
I tear things down and build them up.
Clutchcargo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2007, 09:01 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 682
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Circuit configuration???


now start your de-rating calcs from the 90 deg C columb. 30 amps for 12 wire and 25 amps for 14 wire.

12 wire at 90 c is 30 amps x .5 is 15 amps, and 15 is a common size breaker. so the 12 wire needs to be increased.

14 wire at 90 c is 25 amps x .5 is 12.5 amps. the next common size breaker is 15 amps. So the 14 wires can go on a 15 amp breaker.

__________________
Master Electrician
jwhite is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wiring in New Addition? sandyman720 Electrical 6 11-27-2011 04:34 PM
Loose electrical outlets travishume Electrical 30 08-01-2008 08:21 PM
Conflicting Circuit Info!?? BenBil Electrical 9 01-15-2007 09:26 AM
So lost - electrical requirements please help lapsis9 HVAC 4 12-20-2006 09:09 PM
Adding new circuit breakers to 100 amp sub panel DrP Electrical 8 05-25-2006 11:05 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.