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jamiedolan 10-11-2008 12:16 PM

Changing an outlet, Grounding Procedure
 
I am going to swap out an outlet today, Old outlet is 2 prong with no ground plug. The boxes in my house are all Metal, and the ground wire is bonded to the box. I have tested the ground is it is working properly and is a proper ground.

What is the proper procedure for hooking up a grounded outlet? I see 3 options:

1. I remove the ground wire from the box and hook it directly to the outlet.

2. I remove the ground wire from the box, pig tail it, and re-hook it to the box and hook it to the outlet.

3. Install the outlet into a metal box with out a ground wire attached, I am sure it would pick up the ground from being in direct contact with the metal box, but I am not sure this is the best or correct way to do it, although I have seen this done commercially a number of times, When we are dealing with EMT.

Thanks
Jamie

Winchester 10-11-2008 12:55 PM

I'm not a contractor but I'm going to put in my guess:
I'll take choice #3 Bob for $500. :jester:

kbsparky 10-11-2008 01:00 PM

Option #2 is good.

Option #3 is only good if you utilize a device with a self-grounding clip on the mounting screws.

Do NOT use option #1

nap 10-11-2008 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winchester (Post 170950)
I'm not a contractor but I'm going to put in my guess:
I'll take choice #3 Bob for $500. :jester:

Sorry Winchester, while that can be a viable option, without the proper receptacles, it is an illegal installation. Since the proper devices were not part of the original question, you are wrong.

Please send the $500 to:

I was wrong

123 DIYChatroom street

Everytown, USA.:wink:

kb sparky provided the correct answer.

Winchester 10-11-2008 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nap (Post 170959)
Sorry Winchester, while that can be a viable option, without the proper receptacles, it is an illegal installation. Since the proper devices were not part of the original question, you are wrong.

Please send the $500 to:

I was wrong

123 DIYChatroom street

Everytown, USA.:wink:

kb sparky provided the correct answer.

:eek: LOL

chris75 10-11-2008 05:59 PM

I find it strange that a ground wire was run and terminated to the box, yet a 2 wire receptacle was installed, got a picture?

jamiedolan 10-11-2008 06:46 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75 (Post 171043)
I find it strange that a ground wire was run and terminated to the box, yet a 2 wire receptacle was installed, got a picture?

Attachment 5393

Triplex outlet. You can guess right about when it was install from the clues in the photo... LOL. I was feeling lazy, when you asked for a photo, I had the camera sitting right here, and the closest outlet was the one in the cabinet next to me that the laptop is plugged into. It is filled with slides and old 8mm real to real audio. -- 1950's & 1960's era.

Seriously thought, these were installed everywhere in the finished areas of the house, expect for the water areas (kitchen, laundry, basement, bath) where they installed either regular duplex outlets or dedicated 20A duplex outlets. In many rooms the very bottom plug on these outlets is switched. This was a fairly high end custom build home. In the rooms that have switched outlets, there are no overhead fixtures.

In the upstairs of the house, they ran 14/2 romex with ground to all outlets, expect for the 20A outlets, for the 20A they ran 12/2 without ground and they ran a separate grounding wire to the outlets. In the unfinished portion of the basement they ran all THHN in EMT, in the finished, they ran romex in the joists, and then again ran EMT on the walls behind the finished walls.

Hope that helps.

Jamie

chris75 10-11-2008 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiedolan (Post 171051)
Attachment 5393



In the upstairs of the house, they ran 14/2 romex with ground to all outlets, expect for the 20A outlets, for the 20A they ran 12/2 without ground and they ran a separate grounding wire to the outlets.
Jamie


Uh-Oh... :) Got a picture of a box that is open witht the receptacle out of the way?

jamiedolan 10-11-2008 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75 (Post 171056)
Uh-Oh... :) Got a picture of a box that is open witht the receptacle out of the way?

You want to see one of the 20A 12-2 outlets that has the separate ground wire run to it?
Jamie

chris75 10-11-2008 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiedolan (Post 171066)
You want to see one of the 20A 12-2 outlets that has the separate ground wire run to it?
Jamie


Sure, what wiring method was used? NM? then a thhn ground wire?

InPhase277 10-11-2008 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamiedolan (Post 171066)
You want to see one of the 20A 12-2 outlets that has the separate ground wire run to it?
Jamie

Yes. I believe that is the request. It's hard to believe that some thoughtful electrician would run a ground wire, and bond the box, then opt to install nongrounding receptacles.

Which as a side note, here's a little history: There have been several attempts to come up with a grounding receptacle in the early days. The earliest one I can find is 1927, but it couldn't accept the existing 2 prong plugs, so it went nowhere. Hubbell patented a cord cap in 1950 that was in the configuration for our current 15 A 125 V grounding receptacle. Later in 1950, a duplex grounding outlet was patented in that config. Really, grounding receptacles have been around for a long long time, but it seems that it took them awhile to get installed.

jamiedolan 10-11-2008 07:18 PM

Hope this is what you were asking for
 
5 Attachment(s)
I pulled out a dedicated 20A in the kitchen. Don't touch, it's live. :) (your forgot to tell me to turn the power off) Just kidding, I change stuff live all the time, and never have problems (not a recommendation for other to do that, turn it off if you can). (I have insulated tools also).

Attachment 5396

Attachment 5397

Attachment 5398

Attachment 5399

Attachment 5400


Jamie

jamiedolan 10-11-2008 07:24 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Yes. I believe that is the request.

Done. See my previous post.

It's hard to believe that some thoughtful electrician would run a ground wire, and bond the box, then opt to install nongrounding receptacles.

I suspect it was because the home owner wanted the triplex outlets with one of the plug switched, so they would still have 2 plugs to use, with one of the plugs being used for a lamp (the switched one).

Here is what the outlets look like:
Attachment 5401

Which as a side note, here's a little history: There have been several attempts to come up with a grounding receptacle in the early days. The earliest one I can find is 1927, but it couldn't accept the existing 2 prong plugs, so it went nowhere. Hubbell patented a cord cap in 1950 that was in the configuration for our current 15 A 125 V grounding receptacle. Later in 1950, a duplex grounding outlet was patented in that config. Really, grounding receptacles have been around for a long long time, but it seems that it took them awhile to get installed.

Thanks for the information. I think part of the reason the triplex outlets were installed was for design / looks, as they are the rectangular style outlets. I looked again at some outlets, and The garage too has normal grounded outlets (grounded, normal style also in: Kitchen, laundry, furnace room / unfinished basement, all 3 bathrooms, dry bar, all outside boxes) everywhere else they used the triplex shown in the photo above.

Thanks

Jamie

kbsparky 10-11-2008 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris75 (Post 171043)
I find it strange that a ground wire was run and terminated to the box, yet a 2 wire receptacle was installed, got a picture?

That was the normal installation procedure back in the 1960's before grounding devices were prevalent, but after grounding cables were mandated. :whistling2:

Many houses were wired in this manner, and it is really a good thing that they did, so replacing the devices today is a simple and compliant process.:)

Wildie 10-11-2008 09:21 PM

I remember installing recepts in this very way!
The code required that the box would be grounded (in some manner) but ungrounded parallel blade recepts were the only ones available.
To use up stocks of ungrounded cable, the boxes could be grounded to a water pipe (for instance) with a separately run grounding conductor.
Then when ground recpts arrived, it was assumed that the mounting frame was an adequate connection for the ground.
Then, later on we were required run the cable ground to the box and then to the recept.


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