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Old 02-12-2012, 11:18 PM   #76
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Ceiling Fan Problem, please help


Stubbie, i wasn't following the entire thread. I was just answering about the grounds.

Looks like you covered the part about the non-grounded circuit.

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Old 02-12-2012, 11:21 PM   #77
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yes i understand what u are saying, i appreciate the help. is there anyway around it from running a new wire back up? cant i somehow tie the ground from the outlet somehow to the swicth and fan box? im just asking because we have a 4 room house and none of the rooms have a ceiling light.
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:20 AM   #78
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Stubbie, i wasn't following the entire thread. I was just answering about the grounds.

Looks like you covered the part about the non-grounded circuit.
No problem Jim ... he does not have wiring with an egc
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:27 AM   #79
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yes i understand what u are saying, i appreciate the help. is there anyway around it from running a new wire back up? cant i somehow tie the ground from the outlet somehow to the swicth and fan box? im just asking because we have a 4 room house and none of the rooms have a ceiling light.
I do not see any bare equipment grounds in your electrical boxes that have original wiring.

If it is not possible then you might consider replacing the receptacle with a gfci type and wiring the switch cable to the load terminals of the gfci. This would at least give you some degree of protection against a ground fault on that section of the circuit.
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:16 PM   #80
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I do not see any bare equipment grounds in your electrical boxes that have original wiring.

If it is not possible then you might consider replacing the receptacle with a gfci type and wiring the switch cable to the load terminals of the gfci. This would at least give you some degree of protection against a ground fault on that section of the circuit.
ok but the outlet i have is grounded though, there is a green wire that is connected to the metal box and the outlet itself. the only things as of this moment that arent grounded is the switch and fan box
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:20 PM   #81
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The grounding cannot just start in the middle of the circuit and be effective. It needs to have a complete path back to the panel.
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:28 PM   #82
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The grounding cannot just start in the middle of the circuit and be effective. It needs to have a complete path back to the panel.
even if that is were the power is coming in from?
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:24 PM   #83
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even if that is were the power is coming in from?
you mean your power for the circuit in question is originating from somewhere other than the breaker? do you have a generating plant in your living room or something??
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:25 PM   #84
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you mean your power for the circuit in question is originating from somewhere other than the breaker? do you have a generating plant in your living room or something??
no its in the bathroom actually! haha. i just meant that the switch and fan are run off that outlet because the feed starts there before the switch and fan. and that outlet is grounded.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:53 PM   #85
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no its in the bathroom actually! haha. i just meant that the switch and fan are run off that outlet because the feed starts there before the switch and fan. and that outlet is grounded.
That outlet is not grounded....

Someone who doesn't understand grounding simply ran a green insulated wire from the receptacle to the metal box. That did absolutely nothing to ground the branch circuit or the receptacle. You need to study the diagram I posted. If you notice the new cable you ran has a bare equipment ground ran with the black and white conductors. Every cable needs that ground wire connected to all the others in every electrical box all the way back to the panel. I'm simply telling you that to be code compliant you need a new cable with that ground wire in it all the way to the breaker panel. What you have is a misguided attempt at what someone thought was grounding .. it is not. That in itself is no big deal as many homes do not have grounding wires. However when you extend an existing non-grounded circuit it must meet certain criteria or it isn't allowed due to human safety considerations.
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Old 02-13-2012, 11:26 PM   #86
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That outlet is not grounded....

Someone who doesn't understand grounding simply ran a green insulated wire from the receptacle to the metal box. That did absolutely nothing to ground the branch circuit or the receptacle. You need to study the diagram I posted. If you notice the new cable you ran has a bare equipment ground ran with the black and white conductors. Every cable needs that ground wire connected to all the others in every electrical box all the way back to the panel. I'm simply telling you that to be code compliant you need a new cable with that ground wire in it all the way to the breaker panel. What you have is a misguided attempt at what someone thought was grounding .. it is not. That in itself is no big deal as many homes do not have grounding wires. However when you extend an existing non-grounded circuit it must meet certain criteria or it isn't allowed due to human safety considerations.
ok i understand, thanks. i will get something figured out. is it a big safety concern how it is wired right now? i dont want anything bad to happen until i get it fixed.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:42 AM   #87
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ok i understand, thanks. i will get something figured out. is it a big safety concern how it is wired right now? i dont want anything bad to happen until i get it fixed.
Everything wired correctly I don't consider it a big concern....temporarily There are thousands of homes with no grounding. These are the homes you see with 2 prong outlets, what makes your situation a bit more concerning is the metal housing of the ceiling fan that can be touched by human hands. If there is a ground fault some time after your installation the metal could come to line voltage (120 volts). So I think you see the concern. I would at minimum install a gfci in place of the receptacle.
The other thing is if you have ungrounded wiring you need to make sure there are not any 3 prong receptacles installed on that wiring unless they are protected by a downstream gfci.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:27 AM   #88
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is it a big safety concern how it is wired right now? i dont want anything bad to happen until i get it fixed.
Will a vehicle function properly without airbags? Yes.

Think of grounding in the same way. The fixture or device will function properly without being grounded BUT if you happen to need the ground you are going to pray it is there just like an airbag in a vehicle.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:37 PM   #89
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ok thanks guys for all the help! i really like this site, saves me time and money and i like to do things myself.
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Old 02-15-2012, 07:44 PM   #90
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one quick guestion. you guys say for the breaker to trip i need it to be grounded. how did things work back in the day or even some houses today that arent properly grounded? the home owner just taking a risk?>

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