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Old 01-09-2011, 03:07 PM   #1
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


Trying to figure out the correct way to connect wires without burning down the house. My power source is at the ceiling fixture with 3 wire plus ground (black, red, white) coming in and 2 wire + ground going out to the switch. I want to use the switch for controlling the lights and the pull chain for the fan. Both black and red wires coming in are hot. There are 2 boxes set up like this in 2 connecting rooms. The previous tenant had just cut off the wires and left them hanging. At one box there were 2 white wires nutted together and they appeared to have burn marks on them. The fan has the typical black, blue, white plus ground connections. I've searched and have not been able to find a diagram for this configuration. Can someone help???

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Old 01-09-2011, 03:15 PM   #2
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


You said that there are 2 wires going out to the switch, and 3 wires coming into the ceiling box, correct, for a total of five wires at the ceiling box?

Did you verify that the switch only has 2 + G?

I ask this because you either have a multi circuit cable or a circuit which is 3way switched.

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Old 01-09-2011, 03:18 PM   #3
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


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Originally Posted by Jackofall1 View Post
You said that there are 2 wires going out to the switch, and 3 wires coming into the ceiling box, correct, for a total of five wires at the ceiling box?

Did you verify that the switch only has 2 + G?

I ask this because you either have a multi circuit cable or a circuit which is 3way switched.
I was just thinking the same thing.... If you haven't done so already, open the switch and see what sort of wires are in the switch box. My first thought it is that this is a switch loop, but there's usually no need to bring two hots into the fan box unless we are talking about a MWBC.
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Old 01-09-2011, 04:32 PM   #4
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


I checked both switches(for the 2 different ceiling fixtures) and the only wires present are the 2 wire + ground. My brother ran these wires and from what I've read, it should have been the 2+grd as the source with the 3+grd going to the switch. There's no way for me to modify that now. I believe each source wire is coming from a junction box in the attic. My original thought was to run
the red source to black (fan),
white source to fan,
black source to white switch,
black switch to blue (fan light)
ground to grounds
Am I going to fry my house doing this??? lol
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:34 PM   #5
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


I am confused

How many wires are at the ceiling?

And if there is 3+G where are they coming from?

If there is only 2+G at the switch where are they going?

If they are going to the ceiling how do they change to 3+G

Should have been 2+G from source to a double (2) position switch box and either 3+G or 2 x 2+G going out to ceiling. This would allow you to mount (2) switches which would work independently (fan or light).
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:50 PM   #6
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


I am guessing that orig if there was a fan up there, it was probably remote controlled, always hot. The OP needs to wire nut the Red or Black at the junction point that it comes from, and do the same on the fan box end on the 14/3 or 12/3 that feeds.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:08 PM   #7
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


The ceiling box has one 3 wire + grd which comes in from a junction box somewhere in the attic AND one 2 wire + grd that goes to the wall switch. The 3 wire is the source with both black and red wires hot. I can only guess that the black and red are wired together with a hot source in the attic junction box and then exit at the ceiling box. The 2 wire from the wall switch is not testing hot. I don't know if his fans worked properly as he's not one to admit that he could do anything wrong but I did see the fans working. When he moved, he just cut the wires and took the fans leaving me with wires hanging out of the ceiling. Shows ya just how much he cared about his only sister since he left some of the wires contacting others which I guess could have caused a fire. Anyway, you don't need to hear all this, I just want to know if someone can help me get these new fans properly wired so I can move on to my NEXT clean up project. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:42 PM   #8
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


Since you can pretty much trace the 3 wire romex up in the Attic, I would find out where it goes, and disco the Red and cap it on both ends. Try to keep notes as you go, so that it makes for easier troubleshooting if something happens along the way (ie get taken to lunch, or have to run to the store for parts).
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:05 PM   #9
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


Heres how I would connect it.

Red to fan wire

EDIT: Connect (wire nut) Black Source to the White leading to the switch

EDIT: Connect White from ceiling on one terminal of switch and the other to Black wire going back to the ceiling

EDIT: Connect ceiling white to one side of the loads Light and fan, black wire from switch to the other side of the Light

And the obvious grounds to ground at both switch and ceiling.
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Last edited by Jackofall1; 01-09-2011 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:08 PM   #10
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


When used as a switch loop, code requires the feed to the switch to come in on the white wire.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:44 PM   #11
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


More specifically, for a switch loop, the wire carrying the "switched current" back to the light or fan or other load must not be white.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:56 PM   #12
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OK, I'm a bit confused on the edit (Connect ceiling white to one side of the load (either fan or light) and switch BLACK to the other side of the load (Light or Fan))
I'm connecting the white source wire to either the black or blue fan wires and the black wire from the switch to the black or blue wire, which ever is left after the white wire is connected?
What about the white wire coming from the fan?
Would this create a fan and or light that would only work when the switch was turned on?
Couldn't I "share" the neutral (white) with the switched (black to light) and red to fan and be able to control them independently with the light on the switch and the fan always hot (using the pull chain)?
Sorry if I sound like a complete idiot and I appreciate your patience.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:00 PM   #13
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


Yes you could connect the red to the fan and share the common white source with both the fan and the light.

The light would be the only switched device.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:04 PM   #14
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


switch white--------------->nut<-------------source black
switch black----------------------------------Fan light wire
source white----------------------------------Fan white neural
source red------------------------------------Fan wire
maybe less words would make me less confusing to you guys...lol
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:08 PM   #15
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Ceiling Fan Install power source at fixture


Is it clear now? Its harder to explain that it is to actually do. I modified the previous post to indicate what you are asking.

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