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Old 01-03-2011, 08:32 PM   #1
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Ceiling fan install


Hello all, I'm new here (first post).
I'm going to install a ceiling fan in my game room and I'm not sure which romex to splice into. The room is next to the kitchen. Can I splice into any wire? Any problem with using a GFI outlet?
Thanks, Kris

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Old 01-03-2011, 10:30 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by ramage78 View Post
Hello all, I'm new here (first post).
I'm going to install a ceiling fan in my game room and I'm not sure which romex to splice into. The room is next to the kitchen. Can I splice into any wire? Any problem with using a GFI outlet?
Thanks, Kris
You cannot use a Small Appliance Branch Circuit for this application (these are the circuits which feed your countertop receptacles, which are probably GFCI receptacles or on a GFCI breaker; code specifies that you should have at least two SABC circuits, regardless of the size of your kitchen).

Your best bet would be use an existing general lighting circuit, if you have one available.

You make it sound like there is more than one circuit available to tap into. What is currently on each of these circuits?

Of course, you also need to make sure that you mount the fan in the appropriate junction box (either attached to or suspended between your ceiling joists).

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Old 01-03-2011, 10:46 PM   #3
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Ceiling fan install


There's a lot to understand here. Is there an existing circuit (ceiling light) where you're wanting to make this installation, or will you be cutting a hole for the ceiling fan?

What are the wires going to this circuit, if it's existing?

As mentioned above, the fan will have to have a fan rated box for the ceiling mount. This usually means installing a junction box between two studs using a hanger bracket.

Answer these questions, and more help will come forth.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:24 AM   #4
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Thanks for the responses. I tapped into a circuit that feeds the stove. It's working great and yes I used a junction box that attaches to the studs. Awesome web site. Glad I stumbled across it.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:02 AM   #5
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Ceiling fan install


Can you share the code reference on this please.

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You cannot use a Small Appliance Branch Circuit for this application (these are the circuits which feed your countertop receptacles, which are probably GFCI receptacles or on a GFCI breaker; code specifies that you should have at least two SABC circuits, regardless of the size of your kitchen).

Your best bet would be use an existing general lighting circuit, if you have one available.

You make it sound like there is more than one circuit available to tap into. What is currently on each of these circuits?

Of course, you also need to make sure that you mount the fan in the appropriate junction box (either attached to or suspended between your ceiling joists).
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:42 AM   #6
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Thanks for the responses. I tapped into a circuit that feeds the stove. It's working great and yes I used a junction box that attaches to the studs. Awesome web site. Glad I stumbled across it.
Thats the last place you want to feed the fan from!
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:45 AM   #7
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Thanks for the responses. I tapped into a circuit that feeds the stove. I
That sounds problematic. Tell us that it a gas stove with a 120 volt receptacle and not an electric stove with a 240 volt circuit.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:17 AM   #8
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It's a gas range. I can access the fridge, the GFI, the stove, and the kitchen lights from the attic. Why is the range a bad idea?
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:35 AM   #9
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Need to go back and reread what areas a Small Appliance Branch circuit can serve. It is not about countertops, it is a Branch Circuit that serves the Kitchen & Dining area. It is just over wording, because it basically means GCFI protected circuit, since when they write the NEC, they overkill on the wording and lawyer speak, and just not put into simple layman terms.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:09 AM   #10
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One of my frustrations is how they word the "NEC" to keep their jobs. If they used common sense, and laymens terms they wouldn't have a job.

Bob

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Need to go back and reread what areas a Small Appliance Branch circuit can serve. It is not about countertops, it is a Branch Circuit that serves the Kitchen & Dining area. It is just over wording, because it basically means GCFI protected circuit, since when they write the NEC, they overkill on the wording and lawyer speak, and just not put into simple layman terms.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:12 AM   #11
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It's a gas range. I can access the fridge, the GFI, the stove, and the kitchen lights from the attic. Why is the range a bad idea?
People have been known to tap into half a dedicated 240 volt circuit to get a 120 volt supply. Bad idea, danger and against code.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:16 AM   #12
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How can I get 50 amp range wire to hook up to a 20 amp receptacle?.....Yikies!!

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People have been known to tap into half a dedicated 240 volt circuit to get a 120 volt supply. Bad idea, danger and against code.
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:27 AM   #13
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How can I get 50 amp range wire to hook up to a 20 amp receptacle?.....Yikies!!
Believe me, there are people who find a way!
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:37 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
Need to go back and reread what areas a Small Appliance Branch circuit can serve. It is not about countertops, it is a Branch Circuit that serves the Kitchen & Dining area. It is just over wording, because it basically means GCFI protected circuit, since when they write the NEC, they overkill on the wording and lawyer speak, and just not put into simple layman terms.
An SABC is limited to receptacles. A ceiling box powering a fan (and potentially a light fixture, either now or in the future) disqualifies the circuit as an SABC. Depending on his wiring layout, that could lower the number of SABCs to less than two.

The OP said he tapped an outlet from a gas range for his fan. This could possibly be tied to one of his SABCs and could potentially be a code violation (if the receptacle he tapped was tied to one of his the SABC, he has repurposed that circuit and it is no longer an SABC by code; if he only has one SABC remaining, then it is a code violation).

This of course assumes that he tapped a 120V receptacle. If he tapped a 240V circuit, that's a whole other issue.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:52 PM   #15
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It's a gas range. I can access the fridge, the GFI, the stove, and the kitchen lights from the attic. Why is the range a bad idea?
So, you did not have an existing light in the ceiling. Instead, you cut a hole in the ceiling and ran new wire; is that correct?

You need to take that fan off the range circuit, and run it to one of the outlets that's not on the kitchen counter receptacles.

Yes, what you did makes it work, but it's a code violation, and dangerous. Please rewire, and correct any false assumptions I may have made.

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