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Ceiling fan install

3K views 24 replies 10 participants last post by  brric 
#1 ·
Hello all, I'm new here (first post).
I'm going to install a ceiling fan in my game room and I'm not sure which romex to splice into. The room is next to the kitchen. Can I splice into any wire? Any problem with using a GFI outlet?
Thanks, Kris
 
#2 ·
You cannot use a Small Appliance Branch Circuit for this application (these are the circuits which feed your countertop receptacles, which are probably GFCI receptacles or on a GFCI breaker; code specifies that you should have at least two SABC circuits, regardless of the size of your kitchen).

Your best bet would be use an existing general lighting circuit, if you have one available.

You make it sound like there is more than one circuit available to tap into. What is currently on each of these circuits?

Of course, you also need to make sure that you mount the fan in the appropriate junction box (either attached to or suspended between your ceiling joists).
 
#5 ·
Code reference

Can you share the code reference on this please.

You cannot use a Small Appliance Branch Circuit for this application (these are the circuits which feed your countertop receptacles, which are probably GFCI receptacles or on a GFCI breaker; code specifies that you should have at least two SABC circuits, regardless of the size of your kitchen).

Your best bet would be use an existing general lighting circuit, if you have one available.

You make it sound like there is more than one circuit available to tap into. What is currently on each of these circuits?

Of course, you also need to make sure that you mount the fan in the appropriate junction box (either attached to or suspended between your ceiling joists).
 
#3 ·
There's a lot to understand here. Is there an existing circuit (ceiling light) where you're wanting to make this installation, or will you be cutting a hole for the ceiling fan?

What are the wires going to this circuit, if it's existing?

As mentioned above, the fan will have to have a fan rated box for the ceiling mount. This usually means installing a junction box between two studs using a hanger bracket.

Answer these questions, and more help will come forth.
 
#9 ·
Need to go back and reread what areas a Small Appliance Branch circuit can serve. It is not about countertops, it is a Branch Circuit that serves the Kitchen & Dining area. It is just over wording, because it basically means GCFI protected circuit, since when they write the NEC, they overkill on the wording and lawyer speak, and just not put into simple layman terms.
 
#10 ·
One of my frustrations is how they word the "NEC" to keep their jobs. If they used common sense, and laymens terms they wouldn't have a job.

Bob

Need to go back and reread what areas a Small Appliance Branch circuit can serve. It is not about countertops, it is a Branch Circuit that serves the Kitchen & Dining area. It is just over wording, because it basically means GCFI protected circuit, since when they write the NEC, they overkill on the wording and lawyer speak, and just not put into simple layman terms.
 
#18 ·
There was a light there but I used it to hang a light over my pool table.
.......

Should I tap into the pool light instead?
OK, getting confused. You took a light fixture down from one room (the kitchen), and put it up in another room (for your pool table)?

If that's the case, then you have a hole in your kitchen ceiling with wires in it. What are the number and colors of wires within that ceiling?
 
#21 ·
No. There was all ready a light in this room when I bought the house. I just replaced it with one for the pool table. So the new fan is in addition to the light. The fan is going where nothing has been before. It's a big room with a 15+ ft. vaulted ceiling. When we run the heater all the heat is just sitting up there.
 
#23 ·
Okay, if I say anything that you already know, I apologize as it's not clear the amount of experience you have, but it does seem that you are less familiar with code - and at least you're asking questions to learn what you don't know, that's a good thing.

Feeding your new ceiling fan off the same circuit as another light in the same room sounds like a better idea than using the same circuit as anything in the kitchen.

The requirement for the small appliance receptacle circuit in the kitchen to not serve anything other than the kitchen doesn't seem to apply... NEC requires 2 circuits serving countertop outlets which don't serve anything outside the kitchen. Any additional circuits are allowed and those may serve outlets outside the kitchen (except not in any other kitchen).

This is from 2005, which was what was still being used in Michigan a week ago but I think as of Jan 1 they might have gone to 2008 NEC which I haven't downloaded yet.

(B) Small Appliances.
(1) Receptacle Outlets Served.​
In the kitchen, pantry,
breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling
unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch
circuits required by 2l0.11(C)(1) shall serve all wall and
floor receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A), all countertop
outlets covered by 210.52(C), and receptacle outlets for

refrig~ration​
equipment.

70-52​
Exception No.1: In addition to the required receptacles
specified by 210.52, switched receptacles supplied from a
general-purpose branch circuit as defined in 210.70(A)(1),
Exception No.1, shall be permitted.
Exception No.2: The receptacle outlet for refrigeration
equipment shall be permitted to be supplied from an individual
branch circuit rated​
15 amperes or greater.

(2) No Other Outlets.​
The two or more small-appliance
branch circuits specified in 210.52(B)(1) shall have no
other outlets.

Exception No.1: A receptacle installed solely for the electrical
supply to and support of an electric clock in any of
the rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1).
Exception No.2: Receptacles installed to provide power
for supplemental equipment and lighting on gas-fired
ranges, ovens, or counter-mounted cooking units.​
(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements.​
Receptacles installed
in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be
supplied by not fewer than two small-appliance branch circuits,
either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply
receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms
specified in 210.52(B)(l). Additional small-appliance branch
circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the
kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(l). No smallappliance

branch circuit shall serve more than one kitchen.

So if you're goign to splice into the pool light, you have access to the power feed? (i.e. if it's switched from the wall, you might need to connect at the switch rather than the light unless you want to operate both at the same time?)
 
#24 ·
So if you're goign to splice into the pool light, you have access to the power feed? (i.e. if it's switched from the wall, you might need to connect at the switch rather than the light unless you want to operate both at the same time?)
[/quote]​

Thanks for the info, I'm pretty handy with the install, just not very familiar with the codes. I know it's a scary combo.
I'll have to see if the power feed for the light is in the attic going down to the switch because i will not be able the fish the new power to the switch, the wall is 15 ft. with two fire breaks inside. Definitely don't want to feed both at the same time.​
 
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