Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-27-2008, 06:00 PM   #1
The Carpenta!!!
 
ManMythLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 56
Share |
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


I'm installing a ceiling fan in an old house I'm renovating. The wire in the ceiling box is greenfield. I killed the power to the box at the light switch. I know I'm supposed to kill the power at the breaker so I don't need anyone to tell me how unsafe I am. I already know. Anyway, everything was good I tested for voltage with 2 different testers and nothing. Zero current. I started to screw the new bracket to the box and it made contact with the white wire, arched, and tripped the breaker.

I'm no electrician, but if the voltage reads zero should this thing arch?
__________________
I WILL PERSIST UNTIL I SUCCEED.
I AM A LION AND I REFUSE TO TALK, TO WALK, TO SLEEP WITH THE SHEEP.
THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE OF FAILURE IS NOT MY DESTINY.
I WILL PERSIST UNTIL I SUCCEED.
ManMythLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 06:07 PM   #2
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,030
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ManMythLegend View Post
I'm installing a ceiling fan in an old house I'm renovating. The wire in the ceiling box is greenfield. I killed the power to the box at the light switch. I know I'm supposed to kill the power at the breaker so I don't need anyone to tell me how unsafe I am. I already know. Anyway, everything was good I tested for voltage with 2 different testers and nothing. Zero current. I started to screw the new bracket to the box and it made contact with the white wire, arched, and tripped the breaker.

I'm no electrician, but if the voltage reads zero should this thing arch?
3-way switch?

Do any wires junction in the box?

How many wires are in the box and what colors? Did you test all the wires to ground?

I wonder if they switched the neutral and you tested the hot leg to the neutral leg that was switched off, so you didn't get a reading. Then you touched the hot and were grounded. I bet this is what happened. You need to look at the switch, and test for power to a verfied ground - i.e. extension cord with a known good ground. If your not entirely comfortable with this, then you should get some help, especially since my guess is that your not using insulated tools.

Jamie
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 06:07 PM   #3
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 7,197
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


It depends what you were comparing it to. You can't read zero on one wire. You need two points. You must not have used the proper two points.
joed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 06:17 PM   #4
The Carpenta!!!
 
ManMythLegend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Portsmouth, VA
Posts: 56
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


There are only 2 sets of wires in the box, blacks and whites, and all the whites are twisted together. One tester was the kind with 2 leads and it tells what the voltage is with a light the other tester was a "no contact" tester so I don't really know how I could be messing up the test.

When I go back to the house tomorrow I'll count the wires, take some pics, and write a short description. Thanks for the quick reply and your help fellas.
__________________
I WILL PERSIST UNTIL I SUCCEED.
I AM A LION AND I REFUSE TO TALK, TO WALK, TO SLEEP WITH THE SHEEP.
THE SLAUGHTERHOUSE OF FAILURE IS NOT MY DESTINY.
I WILL PERSIST UNTIL I SUCCEED.
ManMythLegend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 06:29 PM   #5
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,030
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ManMythLegend View Post
There are only 2 sets of wires in the box, blacks and whites, and all the whites are twisted together. One tester was the kind with 2 leads and it tells what the voltage is with a light the other tester was a "no contact" tester so I don't really know how I could be messing up the test.

When I go back to the house tomorrow I'll count the wires, take some pics, and write a short description. Thanks for the quick reply and your help fellas.
Do you understand what I mean about using an extension cord to test to with the ground on it?

Jamie
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 06:53 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 84
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


You could have a neutral shared with another circuit.
Matsukaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 06:59 PM   #7
DIYer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 910
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


It's a long shot, but make sure your neutral and ground are bonded together correctly at your main panel. You could have a serious problem if you are arcing neutral to ground.
Gigs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 07:01 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: north east
Posts: 728
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


not offering electrical advise, had similar problem changing an outlet, with the breaker off, got power off the neutral, as explained to me, it could of been caused by the neutral sharing with anothter neutral.
DUDE! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 08:21 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,543
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


The breaker wouldn't trip if it was a neutral, it has to have been hot.
rgsgww is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 09:14 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,294
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


Pull out the switch and tell us what wires are in there.

I suspect two

If there are two wires in the sw box, the power is in the light box. It is then sent down to the sw and then back to the light.

Disconnect all wires and tesy voltage from black to white #1, Black to white #2. Then test everything one at a time to ground (ground wire or metal box)
220/221 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2008, 10:21 PM   #11
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
Pull out the switch and tell us what wires are in there.

I suspect two
As do I.
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 11:32 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,502
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
You need to look at the switch, and test for power to a verfied ground - i.e. extension cord with a known good ground. If your not entirely comfortable with this, then you should get some help, especially since my guess is that your not using insulated tools.
Jamie
The fan will run just fine without the ground, and testing to ground is not a good idea, and can and will give inconsistent readings. Test between the circuit conductors, (white & black) not to ground.

This extension cord thing is dangerous and should not be attempted by anyone, including electricians.

Edit.....I have no idea what this method is. So, I retract the statement until I find out what it is and how it is performed.

Last edited by J. V.; 10-28-2008 at 01:10 PM.
J. V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 11:38 AM   #13
My License Ain't 4 Sale..
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Atlanta, Ga/Hamilton, Al
Posts: 1,813
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
The fan will run just fine without the ground, and testing to ground is not a good idea, and can and will give inconsistent readings. Test between the circuit conductors, (white & black) not to ground. This extension cord thing is dangerous and should not be attempted by anyone, including electricians.
I disagree. If the ground is good, ground is a fine test point. How, exactly, is the extension cord test dangerous?
InPhase277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 12:22 PM   #14
Licensed Pro
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 1,505
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


The extension cord test is a tried and true technique for determining which wire is hot or neutral when colors are obscured or there is no true ground present. I don't see why it would be considered dangerous.
__________________
"Life is hard. Life is harder when you're stupid." John Wayne
HouseHelper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2008, 12:33 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,502
Default

Ceiling fan bracket killing power in a very weird way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
I disagree. If the ground is good, ground is a fine test point. How, exactly, is the extension cord test dangerous?
IMO testing to ground is not always a good indicator. As you point out "if the ground is good"? What if it's not. The point being the fan does not need a ground to operate, so why test to ground when the circuit neutral is present.

I really do not understand what you guys mean by the extension cord method. If you could clarify what this method is, I will be more than happy to retract my statement.......Thanks John
J. V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How do I get power to a new ceiling fan? sestivers Electrical 12 04-25-2011 02:11 PM
Bring power to Ceiling Fan HELP mechcross Electrical 1 08-24-2008 05:45 PM
ceiling light power loss pejay Electrical 4 08-22-2008 05:02 AM
Converting wall outlet to power ceiling light? VEIK Electrical 3 07-08-2008 08:43 AM
Bracket to Ceiling mount a Wall mount floodlight Ski Electrical 1 06-27-2008 11:18 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.