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Old 08-03-2011, 08:48 PM   #16
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Can you tell?


Lets give this a go..... Here are a few pictures
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Can you tell?-panel-wireing.jpg   Can you tell?-panel.jpg   Can you tell?-closed-fuse-box.jpg   Can you tell?-fuse-box.jpg   Can you tell?-fuse-box-close-up.jpg  

Can you tell?-wire-1.jpg  

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Old 08-03-2011, 08:49 PM   #17
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Can you tell?


And the last for now. All these are in the basement. Not the wall with the outlets.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:49 PM   #18
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No need. Sounds like you have ungrounded Romex. You can just have the door open on the panel if you wish when you take the photo. Remember, most home inspectors in this Buyer's market a year or two ago were not home inspectors. I would trust what they stated as much as the paperwork they gave you. Where you there when the inspection was done on the home, so that you could walk through with them? If you think that there may be live knob & tube still, climb up in the attic, or look at wiring in the basement, especially at junction boxes.
I've got ungrounded romex. I've got BX. I've got new romex that is properly grounded and new romex that is only pretending to be grounded. And I've got K&T. And just for extra fun all of these are mixed up together. Which might be why I'm re-wiring my house.... So long as your insurance company knows the story and you don't extend any old K&T you're good.

K&T is safe and stable so long as it isn't improperly extended, MESSED WITH, insulated around. It's primary problem is that it offers no ground wire. I've got four circuits in my house that run entirely on K&T with no problems what-so-ever. It's slated to be replaced for capacity sake and to add grounds.

As stated above, the only way to know is to open things up and look. Otherwise you're just making a best guess. As a new HOer you should map out your electrical system, anyway. Some digging around is in order.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:51 PM   #19
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No knob and tube. You are fine so far. Just need to get into the attic to look for any going into junction boxes.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:51 PM   #20
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And the last for now. All these are in the basement. Not the wall with the outlets.
So, you've got old Romex there (may or may not have a ground - you'll have to look carefully, sometimes it's cut back). I see no knobs. I see no tubes.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:06 PM   #21
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The silver cable is the romex with the undersized ground. They didnt connect the ground wires in the boxes They wrapped the ground wire around the clamp screws or connector screws (which won't be visible inside the box). Nothing wrong with it. You just won't be able to extend off it.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:16 PM   #22
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The silver cable is the romex with the undersized ground. They didnt connect the ground wires in the boxes They wrapped the ground wire around the clamp screws or connector screws (which won't be visible inside the box). Nothing wrong with it. You just won't be able to extend off it.
He is not extending anything, he is just trying to figure out the mess he has, because of the hack home inspector was not clear in doing their job as they were hired to do.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:37 PM   #23
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He is not extending anything, he is just trying to figure out the mess he has, because of the hack home inspector was not clear in doing their job as they were hired to do.
Hi Greg,

No kidding! It was just another opportunity to educate others following this thread that extending off romex with undersized grounds is non compliant. I participate in the forum to help educate people and protect them from posers. I don't have to prove myself to you or any of your so called experts. I have the licenses hanging on the wall. Now take a deep breath.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:44 PM   #24
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Sometimes the grounds are screwed to the outside of the box.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:02 PM   #25
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Hi Greg,

No kidding! It was just another oppertunity to educate others following this thread that extending off romex withi undersized grounds is non compliant. I participate in the forum to help educate people and protect them from posers. I dont have tp prove myself to you or any of your so called experts I have the licenses hanging on the wall Now take a deep breath.
But you keep repeating the same stuff over and over. You do not need to educate anyone, because we have real experts on this site like Petey, & Yuri, etc.
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Old 08-03-2011, 10:29 PM   #26
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But you keep repeating the same stuff over and over. You do not need to educate anyone, because we have real experts on this site like Petey, & Yuri, etc.
Hi Greg,

I never claimed to be an expert. Just a T E A C H E R!! We have a tendancy to repeat ourselves (I think it's genetic). Oh, and for the record, you also like to repeat yourself. "Dishwashers & disposals can be on the same 15 amp circuit." Just to let you know, I'm going to address that statement real soon. Maybe your experts can help steer that in the right direction.

And we have real moderators too! As far as I can tell, you are not one of them.
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Old 08-04-2011, 05:58 AM   #27
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Heres my plan.... This Sunday If i can come up with a few hours i need to go into the attic. I have to put a screen up so birds will stay out any way. Ill look for K&T and take some pictures. I also bought a Safety Stick. Its a Greenlee live wire tester. I dont think the wet finger test will feel so good... Ill post back on this after I go up on this issue.

I was also informed by my wife that the two prong outlets we have arc when she unplugs anything.... So i need to swap outlets soon. I bought 40 Cooper outlets from Lowes.

As far as the ground wires go, from a few outlets i looked in they are either attached by a screw or wrapped around the cable clamp.

Here is my plan to ground the outlets. I bought 50 feet of green 12ga wire and 50 spade/50 round yellow terminals. I am going to make as many 6 inch ground leads as i need. Then screw it to the box with either a self tapping screw or under the already installed ground screw.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:07 AM   #28
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You can actually buy the ground leads with the screws & eye already attached. Look where the wire nuts & electrical tools are at Lowe's.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:26 AM   #29
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You can actually buy the ground leads with the screws & eye already attached. Look where the wire nuts & electrical tools are at Lowe's.
Last i went they didnt have them at Lowes. ill have to go look again. I know Home Depot has them, but every HD within 1.5 hours is sold out and its not avaiable online.
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Old 08-04-2011, 10:55 AM   #30
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Since there is new romex installed, you may not need the grounding pigtails. Depending on how much slack, you may have enough to pull to install grounds. As for some of those junctions downstairs, looks like my basement when we moved in. Originally four circuits with BX, and everything went off of there. Over time, there was a couple of additions. I pulled pretty much all of the old stuff out, with the exception of the lighting in the living room, and bedrooms, which is still the BX from when the house was built around 1937.

You know, looking at that panel picture, it does not appear to be a main, it looks like a sub-panel. Is there a main disconnect outside? Post a picture of the service entrance. It all could use some cleaning up to make neater. Also, that panel with all of the junctions, and conduit, what is it feeding? If you do not have Microsoft Excel to map out the circuits, you can use Google Doc's to create a spreadsheet.


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