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Old 02-14-2015, 02:03 PM   #1
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can tandem breakers be added?


Hi all, wondering if this load center is rated for tandem breakers. How would one tell? It's a ch4 series e, but can't find any specs on it. Wanting to add a couple of extra circuits.
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:49 PM   #2
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can tandem breakers be added?


Id be more concerned about the code violations.

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Old 02-14-2015, 04:10 PM   #3
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can tandem breakers be added?


Not real helpful to the guy. Maybe tell him what the issue instead of having him guess. Ron
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:14 PM   #4
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can tandem breakers be added?


Just bought this little house, the box was wired this way.. There's combination of old 2 wire with no ground and new Romex with loose grounds. What's the best way to get this cleaned up? I know a new service is best, but can this panel be saved? or is it obsolete not having a ground bus w/the romex?
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:17 PM   #5
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can tandem breakers be added?


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Originally Posted by ront02769 View Post
Not real helpful to the guy. Maybe tell him what the issue instead of having him guess. Ron
How is continuing code violations helpful? Ok, I tell him to stick in a tandem, how is the hazard going to be corrected?
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:20 PM   #6
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can tandem breakers be added?


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Originally Posted by osage View Post
Just bought this little house, the box was wired this way.. There's combination of old 2 wire with no ground and new Romex with loose grounds. What's the best way to get this cleaned up? I know a new service is best, but can this panel be saved? or is it obsolete not having a ground bus w/the romex?
Glad you asked

Your panel will need a ground bar, and if the panel is grounded through conduit the neutral bonding jumper screw will need to be removed.


If you can't find a ground bar for a Cutler Hammer panel this age your best bet is replacing. Small panels like this are cheap at home centers.

Also, is this attached to the house or separate (detached)?
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:33 PM   #7
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can tandem breakers be added?


Quote:
Originally Posted by osage View Post
Hi all, wondering if this load center is rated for tandem breakers. How would one tell? It's a ch4 series e, but can't find any specs on it. Wanting to add a couple of extra circuits.

*The labeling inside the panel should tell you how many circuits it can have. It is possible that is a 4/8 panel. 4 spaces/8 circuits. However if you have over 6 circuits you will need a main circuit breaker. Is there a main breaker or fused switch protecting this panel or is it straight off the meter?

I do not see a grounding electrode conductor which would need to be connected to the water pipe or a ground rod or both. That needs to be added as well as a ground bar to land those bare grounds onto. If this panel is fed straight from the meter, the neutral and grounds go on the same bar. If there is a main, the grounds and neutrals stay separate and the grounding electrode conductor should be in the main enclosure.

One thing, this panel seems to only have 120 volts. The one big black wire seems to connect to both bus bars. If this is the case, then I vote for a new service.

I would ask to see pictures of the meter and service, but I'm thinking they will just convince that this house is way overdue for an electrical upgrade.

I suggest that you call an electrical contractor and ask him or her what your options are.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:35 PM   #8
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can tandem breakers be added?


Eaton has a CHT1515 or CHT2020 tandem breaker. Do a Google search to find a source. Seen some on Amazon around $27.50 free shipping.

Can't say for sure if they'll fit in that panel but they do make the tandems.

Last edited by sparky48; 02-14-2015 at 04:37 PM.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:37 PM   #9
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Mr. Electrician TV said it better than me. :D


Depending is this is an attached or detached structure a lot changes.

An attached structure does not need a main or 6 or less throws if the enclosure is listed as 'service equipment'

A detached structure needs a disconnecting means like described above as well as ground rods.


The feed to this also makes me wonder how and what is going on. I see only 2 wires, and Im guessing metal conduit feeds the panel which acts a s a ground but that's just a guess.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:41 PM   #10
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can tandem breakers be added?


Sparky, did find some tandem breakers but wondering about code.

Yes attached to the house.
There's no main breaker or switch.
The panel is fed directly from the meter.
Yes only 120v
The ground drops from under the meter in conduit to a rod.

Last edited by osage; 02-14-2015 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:46 PM   #11
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Yes attached to the house.

There's no main breaker or switch.
Yes only 120v
The ground drops from under the meter in conduit to a rod.

Time to bring this house into the 21st century.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:57 PM   #12
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can tandem breakers be added?


Quote:
Originally Posted by osage View Post
Sparky, did find some tandem breakers but wondering about code.

Yes attached to the house.
There's no main breaker or switch.
The panel is fed directly from the meter.
Yes only 120v
The ground drops from under the meter in conduit to a rod.


Wait, the meter directly feeds this subpanel? Than what feeds your home panel?
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:02 PM   #13
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can tandem breakers be added?


This is the main panel
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:05 PM   #14
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can tandem breakers be added?


Quote:
Originally Posted by osage View Post
This is the main panel
OOHHH! My mistake!

I thought this was a subpanel fed from the main panel.

Ok, so this is your home panel then.


Ok, I agree with Mr. Electrician TV, if you can bite the money than a 21st century service upgrade is a smart investment.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:16 PM   #15
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can tandem breakers be added?


I totally agree a new service is best but money is tight.. what would you do to get by for a year or two with code/safety in mind? I'd like to add some circuits for the kitchen (dedicated circuits for a microwave, fridge, washer machine) The house is small 2bed/1bath, aprox 900 ft2. Not a lot of load.

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