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Old 01-30-2011, 05:33 PM   #31
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Can someone help me understand this?


Steeler - I'm being serious - you really need to identify where the source power is coming from, and the load. If you don't know then stop and find out, and use a meter to check. Someone put in a new, modern panel and decided to leave this out of the picture. It's not making sense to me why someone would do this.

This spark could have blinded you very easily. I'm not a pro either, but you need to know when you need one.

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Old 01-30-2011, 05:33 PM   #32
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Can someone help me understand this?


I could take a slightly angled photo if that would help clarify things. I'm interested in knowing if this entire box needs to be taken out and have it wired directly into the panel box? I'm thinking that the entire set up is old and way out of date, and it just may not be safe anymore. As I previously said, I'm generally on the overcautious side with things like that
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:36 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Steeler99 View Post
I could take a slightly angled photo if that would help clarify things. I'm interested in knowing if this entire box needs to be taken out and have it wired directly into the panel box? I'm thinking that the entire set up is old and way out of date, and it just may not be safe anymore. As I previously said, I'm generally on the overcautious side with things like that
This is exactly what I suggested earlier, if there is room in the main panel that is and if there isn't then a new switch with a breaker might be a suggestion.
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Old 01-30-2011, 05:37 PM   #34
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I'm curious to see the other end of the incoming line.....
...at the meter????

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Old 01-30-2011, 05:57 PM   #35
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Can someone help me understand this?


If the white cable is tapped to the meter lugs ( I missed that in my first read) it needs to be corrected and the hot water tank needs a branch circuit originating in the service panel in your photo. I'd then do away with the disconnect if you can see the hot water tank from the service panel. In which case the circuit breaker in the service panel can serve as your disconnect.

If you use a disconnect I would use a non-fused one of a more modern vintage. A QO200TRCP would do nicely about 15 bucks at the big box.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:03 PM   #36
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Tribe, I'm just going to call an electrician in the morning, I realize it's beyond me at this point. I went over and shut the breaker off, and removed the fuses, and I'm pretty much done with it at this point.

I've taken more photos of this, from different angles after the fuses have been removed. I'll post them in the morning.

I relooked at the incoming white wire at the top left of the box, and it doesn't go to the panel box at all. It goes up and through the floor, which the outside meter is located directly above that on the outside wall. So, I'm making the assumption that it goes directly to the meter.

I still believe that what I did as far as shutting the box off was correct being that it there doesn't appear to be any other way of shutting the power down other than at the meter. Obviously, I should have tested it and that was the biggest mistake of the day.

Once I get the results from the electrician, I'll post them
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:07 PM   #37
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Well, I had an electrician come by this morning, as it turns out, there's one in the family through marriage who retired last year. I learned quite alot and things don't appear to be as bad as they seemed.

First, I apologize to all being that the photos I sent didn't show one minor detail that would have helped tremendously. The bar was burnt underneath, which proves that my screwdriver had to be underneath the bar, causing it to lift enough to get it to arc. So, needless to say, stupid mistake on my part.

He said that the ground I put in needs to be extended to include the upper right bus screw...which would ground the entire box out. Or to add a ground continous to the box, but he thought it would be simpler just to add a larger loop and include the bus screw.

The incoming white wire is old, but it's 10/2 coming in....supplying 240v. The white is also ran to it's own seperate meter outside.

Perhaps the best thing that came out of this is that I happened to touch the panel ground wire while showing him what I had done, and noticed that this caused a spark and melting of the cable tv wiring just at the top left of the box. Of course, we fixed that and tightened up a few things in the panel box, and he left me enough of the 10/2 to finish the job up properly.

Having said that, thanks to all for your help, I learned alot and I really appreciate it. And Stubbie, I believe all that was exactly as you said, and it's very clear to me now that I've had a chance to digest all of this. DM and Jack, thanks again
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Old 01-31-2011, 12:11 PM   #38
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Thanks for posting back with the results, its always a nice way to end the story, and you are very welcome.

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Old 01-31-2011, 05:26 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
Probably hidden in shadow but the wire handle is connected to the knife blades using plastic insulating pivoting linkages.

The water heater may have originally been fed with a separate meter for a lower cost per kilowatt hour, hence it (via the little fuse box) was not connected to the main panel.

With the handle in the off position and the knife blades withdrawn, the only live spots should be (should have been) the two clips diagonally above/beside the fuses where the knife blades engage.
Good call, I was almost killed about 40 years ago from the same thing.
The house had 2 separate meters main house meter and separate water heater meter for lower rate. Won't go into details but I did learn a lot over the years. Glad he found the problem.

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