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Old 09-15-2012, 07:49 PM   #1
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Can I use new square d breakers


Hey guys first post here, I'm trying to wire in a 240 outlet in my attached garage I want to make sure I'm doing this right and have a few q's.what I'm going to do is setup up for a 50 amp input welder, thinking I should run 6/2 nm-b romex from a 50amp 2 pole breaker through maybe 1" PVC to an outlet(think its a nema 6 or something). Is there any way to not have a mounted outlet like basically like an extension cord hooked to the panel that I can move around where I need it? Also a big issue is my panel has the old style square d breakers and it's full so I was going to use 2 tandem breakers to make space but the old ones are $35 each so I was wondering if anyone can tell me if I can use the new hook style. The panel number is qo20-30mw150 series L-8. Also how do I know which bar to hook the ground to. I have I think like three different bars in there. Oh it's a 150 amp main and why do I have another box outside with another 150 amp main in a small box on the house? Thanks!

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Old 09-15-2012, 08:50 PM   #2
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Can I use new square d breakers


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Hey guys first post here, I'm trying to wire in a 240 outlet in my attached garage I want to make sure I'm doing this right and have a few q's.what I'm going to do is setup up for a 50 amp input welder, thinking I should run 6/2 nm-b romex from a 50amp 2 pole breaker through maybe 1" PVC to an outlet(think its a nema 6 or something). Is there any way to not have a mounted outlet like basically like an extension cord hooked to the panel that I can move around where I need it? Also a big issue is my panel has the old style square d breakers and it's full so I was going to use 2 tandem breakers to make space but the old ones are $35 each so I was wondering if anyone can tell me if I can use the new hook style. The panel number is qo20-30mw150 series L-8. Also how do I know which bar to hook the ground to. I have I think like three different bars in there. Oh it's a 150 amp main and why do I have another box outside with another 150 amp main in a small box on the house? Thanks!
The best solution for the extension cord would be to install a receptacle for the welder, then buy extension cord wire 6-3 (I think they count the ground) just make sure its what you need. Then install cord caps to complete it.
I am not real familiar with Square D panels, but I think with it being a QO20/30 it's rated for tandems. As for which bar to hook wires to, obviously the two hots go to the breaker, the ground/green wire would attach to the ground bar, not the neutral/white bar. If this was wired correctly there should be a distinct difference from the two.
The main on the house is 'Code' all disconnect shall be grouped. Are there two disconnects on the house, one for the house and one for the shop?

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Old 09-15-2012, 08:52 PM   #3
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Can I use new square d breakers


IT sounds like your panel is a "sub-panel" ... if there is an outside disconnect box at the meter box.

It also sounds like you have a 20-space panel, capable of handling up to 30 circuits. This means that the "hook" type piggy-back tandem breakers will only fit in the bottom half of the breaker spaces.

There should be a ground-bar mounted in the back of the panel for the bare ground wire, separate from the 3-tiered neutral bars.

Can you post some high-resolution photos of your panel box, with the cover removed?

As for a roaming cord, you would need to mount a suitable junction box, with some heavy-duty type SO cord, connected using a "kellams-grip" at the box.

A suitable cord-cap (NEMA6-50R?) would also be required at the welder end.
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Old 09-16-2012, 06:39 AM   #4
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Don't think this is a sub panel as it is the only panel besides the main on the meter which has nothing but one 150 breaker. I'm trying to get a pic loaded but until then you say even though the panel has the old style breakers with the clips I can still use the new ones with the hook? Some people were saying only certain panels could use both but I can't tell. In the pic there are 3 bars on the top right and one on the bottom left im not sure sure what's what
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:01 AM   #5
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Can I use new square d breakers-photo-1-.jpg
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:07 AM   #6
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i thought a sub panel would be say another panel ran from this one that looks similar but no main breaker. now that i think about it a sub panel has neutrals and grounds on seperate bars right? so where is my main panel? just that one breaker outside? i thought that was maybe just to kill power to the box with all the breakers. i dont know, confusing! thanks for all the help guys. ive been reading up on this for days and am sick of not getting any real answers
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:21 AM   #7
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Yes, that is a sub panel, note the four wires entering the enclosure. All grounds and neutrals should be separate, which I see one white wire in the bottom ground bar, trace it see if it's really a neutral, if it is it needs to be in the upper bars, just move it (turn power off first!)
Is those are stab-loc breakers you will need to use stab-locs

( good picture!)
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Old 09-16-2012, 07:43 AM   #8
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Thanks! I'm not sure but I think you may be looking at the aluminum wire on the bottom left I think it just looks white in the pic not sure though will have to take the panel back off. So you are saying that I can't use the hook breakers at all? Was hoping I could the old ones are $$$
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Old 09-16-2012, 09:24 AM   #9
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Can I use new square d breakers


I am only seeing twenty pole worth of breakers in a panel that will accept up to thirty poles. You will need to use CTL tandems and make sure that no multi-wire branch circuits are combined on the tandems.

Your service panel is the single breaker disconnect outside.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:19 AM   #10
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What is a multi branch circuit
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:44 AM   #11
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It's a three wire cable utilizing both legs of the service and one neutral. Being as the hot legs are 180 degrees out of sync with each other the return on the neutral cancels each other out. So if your using 15a breakers for instance even though your feeding two circuits you'll never have more than 15a on the neutral.

Basically if you have any three wire cable in your panel you can't land those cables onto the same tandem breaker.
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:45 AM   #12
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What is a multi wire branch circuit
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Old 09-16-2012, 12:49 PM   #13
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Can I use new square d breakers


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What is a multi wire branch circuit
Andrew did posted a good wording so let me post the photo so it is a simpleifed verison to show how it work.



The photo will show with breaker is in correct postion but if you put the multi wire circuit in wrong postion which I know it is true with GE skinny breakers and few others if landed wrong you will overload the netural conductor.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 09-16-2012, 05:52 PM   #14
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Can I use new square d breakers


THERE is only one red wire that I can see in that pic (probably a dryer?), so you probably do not have multi-wire branch circuits to be concerned with.

You do have a sub-panel as others have pointed out. Just be sure to run the bare ground wire to the equipment grounding terminal on the left side.

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